JA: 1.5L 4pot turbo hybrid future for F1

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The rules for the 2013 engine will probably be specified later this year by the FIA and are likely to be very green and futuristic. Max Mosely wanted the formula to be based on fuel use rather than CCs. Jean Todt has indicated that he wants it to be road relevant. Either way it is likely to be a 1.5 litre four cylinder turbo or something of that kind with a big 120 KW electric hybrid motor, harvesting energy under braking.
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http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/new-teams-latest-campos-changes-name-stefan-gp-agitating/

SERIOUSLY? 1.5L 4 pot Turbo hybrid, are you kidding me?
 
visibleman said:
Didn't they run 1.5l turbo engines back in the 70s?
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Only some teams used them
There were V6, V8, V12 and I4 engines in both turbo and NA form back then.

The difference is that now we won't have any competing engine setups, everyone will be the same.
 
Hmmmm....

So - potential for in excess of 1500bhp again...
Depends if they allow the driver to change the boost pressure or not.

Will they allow a normally aspirated variant again and bring back the Jim Clark and Colin Chapman trophies?

I can see several engine suppliers pulling out over this though.
 
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Flibster said:
Hmmmm....

So - potential for in excess of 1500bhp again...
Depends if they allow the driver to change the boost pressure or not.

Will they allow a normally aspirated variant again and bring back the Jim Clark and Colin Chapman trophies?

I can see several engine suppliers pulling out over this though.
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Like? We only have Merc, Renault, Ferrari left, and Cosworth as the other choice.
Merc will stay, as will Ferrari.

What would be funny is if both refused to supple other teams other than a select few, forcing everyone else to use the useless Cosworth
 
Not sure I see the problem here. Seriously. Turbocharged engines in F1 would be a great thing. One of the best energy recovery systems out there is the frappin' turbocharger.

Jean Todt apparently wants a road-relevant engine formula. Great. I seem to recall BMW using a road-car based block during the '80s to make a very powerful engine, now what was the formula back then....let me think.....oh yeah, 1.5 litre turbocharged engines were allowed ;)

Seriously guys - is it just the "hybrid" word that you're worried about? 'cause that's almost inevitable I'm afraid. If we want the sport to survive and want the speeds to stay where they are (or increase), then we're just going to have to accept these kind of words. Forget Priuses, this won't be anything like as clunky as that. It'll be '09 F1 style KERS done properly.

I hope.
 
Last time F1 had small turbo engines didnt they melt the exhaust pipes and upset the planets orbit by chucking out 1300BHP and running for a maximum of 4 seconds before self imploding and taking the car, driver and any passing spectators with it?

I hardly think thats the way the FIA are going. Think less about glowing red uber turbos and think more about the recently announced 2 cylinder 800cc turbo engine for the Fiat 500...

... yeah, sounds less exciting now doesnt it... :(
 
rypt said:
Like? We only have Merc, Renault, Ferrari left, and Cosworth as the other choice.
Merc will stay, as will Ferrari.

What would be funny is if both refused to supple other teams other than a select few, forcing everyone else to use the useless Cosworth
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Ferrari will stay.
Cosworth - depends if they can afford the development.
Mercedes - I can see them leaving.
Renault - seeing as their team is not really theirs anymore - I can see them going as well.

I can see VW entering though. These engines are the sort of thing they are interested in.

As for the hybrid side - they would need to decide on a hybrid format. Williams want to use the flywheel system, everyone else wants the battery version. Flywheel - not as safe, but greener. Battery - very limited life and need replacing frequently, also introduces risk of electrocution.

I'm not a fan of the hybrid idea, limiting engine and fuel capacity but freeing up engine configuration would be my preferred restrictions. FIA want a standardized engine though - buy the engine or the plans and build it to that spec. Bah.

*goes off to watch some classic races from the 60's and 70's when technical innovation was not only wanted but essential*
 
If it become road relivent, expect major car manufacturers back in. Ford, Toyota, Honda, GM, BMW, Fiat.

If it can be made road reliant then it will have the benefit in the same way that caused all the car manufacturers to join F1 in the last decade.

There will be little benifit in the manufacturers owning teams, but we may see the return of privately owned smaller teams running a multitude of engines. Which will be good.

I just wouldnt expect monster turbos and 1500BHP. They will be small and compact and powerfull engines with highly powerefull KERS equivalents.
 
PinkFloyd said:
JRS - I think its the 4 pot part of it rather than 1.5 litre or turbo charged that most people are against!
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It's both for me

I can live with 2.0 or 2.5 Turbo (like WRC had), but anything smaller is a bit "meh" for me. - though granted, this is F1, so I was hoping they'd do 3.0 or 3.5 V6/I6.

But 1.5/1.6L Turbo AND hybrid pushes it over the edge.
 
rypt said:
It's both for me

I can live with 2.0 or 2.5 Turbo (like WRC had), but anything smaller is a bit "meh" for me. - though granted, this is F1, so I was hoping they'd do 3.0 or 3.5 V6/I6.

But 1.5/1.6L Turbo AND hybrid pushes it over the edge.
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Yeah, i mean, 1.5l Turbo engines are so 'meh'..... :rolleyes:


But I dont expect the FIAs plans to come anywhere near this.
 
Skeeter said:
Yeah, i mean, 1.5l Turbo engines are so 'meh'..... :rolleyes:

But I dont expect the FIAs plans to come anywhere near this.
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That counts as loosely production based :D

Block was from the M10 that was used in the 60's and 70's road cars. I've read that BMW sourced used blocks for the F1 engines as they were stronger from repeated heat cycling.

Still prefer the sound of the TAG-Porsche tho...
 
My preferred option for 2013 would be to have a limit on the amount of stored energy you can start a race with, but don't limit the source or engine configuration - the energy could come from petrol, diesel, hydrogen or battery - with varying cylinder counts, configurations etc.

Have an unrestricted KERS system allowing teams to recover and reuse as much of their available energy source as possible.

Such a system would have an effective power limit based on the amount of energy available for the race, would drive the quest for ever greater efficiency to boost performance which could feed back into road cars, and should provide some good variety throughout the grid.
 
Sticking with the 1.5l capacity here's engines from F1's history that have used that. There's a surprisingly variety.

Alta inline-4 1.5l - Supercharged
Alfa Romeo inline-8 1.5l - Supercharged
BRM V16 1.5l - Supercharged - OH HELL YES! Lets bring this back! :D
ERA inline-6 1.5l - Supercharged
Ferrari V12 1.5l - Supercharged
Maserati inline-4 1.5l - Supercharged
Simca-Gordini inline-4 1.5l - Supercharged
ATS V8 1.5l
BRM V8 1.5l
Clisby V6 1.5l
Coventry Climax inline-4 1.5l
Coventry Climax V8 1.5l
Coventry Climax Flat-16 1.5l
Ford inline-4 1.5l
Ferrari V6 1.5l
Ferrari V8 1.5l
Ferrari Flat-12 1.5l
Honda V12 1.5l
Porsche Flat-4 1.5l aircooled
Porsche Flat-8 1.5l aircooled
Maserati inline-4 1.5l
Maserati V12 1.5l
Alfa Romeo V8 1.5l Turbo
BMW M12 inline-4 1.5l Turbo
Ferrari V6 1.5l Turbo
Ford V6 1.5l Turbo
Hart inline-4 1.5l Turbo
Honda V6 1.5l Turbo
Motori Moderni V6 1.5 Turbo
Gordini V6 1.5l Turbo
TAG-Porsche V6 1.5l Turbo
Zakspeed inline-4 1.5l Turbo

What will happen - there will be an engine that is so regulated that they may as well be from a single supplier. :(
 
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