JA: 1.5L 4pot turbo hybrid future for F1

dannyjo22 · 4 Mar 2010 at 02:24

Flibster said:
What will happen - there will be an engine that is so regulated that they may as well be from a single supplier.

Finally someone gets to the point of it all. That is exactly what they want to achieve a single engine supplier.

They know F1 is unsustainable, everyone with any money wants to keep it and pull out.

dalin80 · 4 Mar 2010 at 07:31

MagicBoy said:
Who listens to fathead? He's a moron...

A lot of people actually, his commentry style was hated but the guy has always been a excellent and well sourced writer.

Personnaly i dont mind what engine config they decide to use as long power output remains the same.

clv101 · 4 Mar 2010 at 09:28

The rules for the 2013 engine will probably be specified later this year by the FIA and are likely to be very green and futuristic. Max Mosely wanted the formula to be based on fuel use rather than CCs. Jean Todt has indicated that he wants it to be road relevant. Either way it is likely to be a 1.5 litre four cylinder turbo or something of that kind with a big 120 KW electric hybrid motor, harvesting energy under braking.

It's a no brainer isn't it? It's obvious F1 is moving in this direction it has to happen and it's a good thing! :confused:

rypt · 4 Mar 2010 at 12:08

How is it a good thing?

clv101 · 4 Mar 2010 at 12:20

High technology, future technology, lighter, fuel efficient, R&D applicable to the real world...

This is the technological fronter F1 should be pushing. High capacity, normally aspirated ICEs are rapidly becoming obsolete 20th century technology. If F1 doesn't want to be seen a technophobic Luddite it needs to be working on the fronter.

Another couple of decades expect all electric - this is the trajectory we're on. I'm excited by the technology, that's what F1 is all about.

Repta · 4 Mar 2010 at 13:51

Now with no refueling why does there need to be any engine specs. Surely just lets the teams use whatever engine they want, just limited the amount of fuel they can carry. That way they have to balance power with fuel consumption and would work to make more efficient engines. Or am i missing something?

clv101 · 4 Mar 2010 at 14:00

Repta said:
Or am i missing something?

The fact that they aren't currently allowed to redesign the engines?

But yeah, in theory I think the regs should just set the amount of energy they can start the race with. The winner is the first to cross the 200 mile line having used no more than say 32,000 MJ of energy (approx 100L of oil).

Sumanji · 4 Mar 2010 at 15:56

Sumanji said:
I (think) I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

Minimum weight limit
Physical dimension limit
Engine capacity limit
(Maybe a reasonable budget cap - say €100m)

Everything else unrestricted - let the best team win

Think of all the funky car designs that would emerge... it would be like Wipeout / F-Zero / Extreme-G!

Su

jaybee · 4 Mar 2010 at 16:12

I see the pinnacle of motorsport (F1) all about having bleeding edge technology with mainly one priority; how fast a car can get around a race track repeatedly. For me it's all about the power and aerodynamics, i.e. making them as fast as possible with no exceptions. I hate all of this green eco what not coming into motorsport. Motorsport was never about being green and should primarily be designed as a spectacle for the people.

rypt · 4 Mar 2010 at 16:15

jaybee said:
I see the pinnacle of motorsport (F1) all about having bleeding edge technology with mainly one priority; how fast a car can get around a race track repeatedly. For me it's all about the power and aerodynamics, i.e. making them as fast as possible with no exceptions. I hate all of this green eco what not coming into motorsport. Motorsport was never about being green and should primarily be designed as a spectacle for the people.

+1 x1000000

clv101 · 4 Mar 2010 at 16:35

jaybee said:
I see the pinnacle of motorsport (F1) all about having bleeding edge technology with mainly one priority; how fast a car can get around a race track repeatedly. For me it's all about the power and aerodynamics, i.e. making them as fast as possible with no exceptions. I hate all of this green eco what not coming into motorsport. Motorsport was never about being green and should primarily be designed as a spectacle for the people.

Things change, the world changes... we don't have slaves any more and we no longer use steam trains. There are simply better ways to do things now. Getting rid of the ICE after a hundred years of service is a good thing. It's called progress, something I thought a techy forum of predominately young men would recognise!

The bleeding edge of technology IS electric drive trains, IS energy recovery.

rypt · 4 Mar 2010 at 17:17

clv101 said:
The bleeding edge of technology IS electric drive trains, IS energy recovery.

So keep the weight limit the same, but allow teams to power the vehicles however they wish provided they start with only xxx MJ of energy.
This will show what technology is superior

daz · 5 Mar 2010 at 16:16

I think with the no refueling rules, rather than bringing in these hard limits teams will be more softly encouraged to be green by the FIA gradually reducing the amount of fuel that can be carried on board for a race.

clv101 · 5 Mar 2010 at 16:32

daz said:
I think with the no refueling rules, rather than bringing in these hard limits teams will be more softly encouraged to be green by the FIA gradually reducing the amount of fuel that can be carried on board for a race.

Yeah, the critical problem currently is that teams aren't allowed to work on the engines.

Ignoring the cost for a moment, I think a great idea would be to give the teams a fixed amount of fuel to start the race, say 200 kg. Then each year for the next decade, reduce it by 5% per year. Let the teams know what's coming, change it gradually, they are then stimulated to design the most efficient engines they can. Don't mandate energy recovery but don't ban it either.

Unfortunately, this approach is likely too expensive so we're left with the locked down engines for the next couple of years.

Lunatic Dreyfus · 5 Mar 2010 at 21:13

Dup said:
Could be interesting, but likely a failure. Just wait till they mention diesel...

I think I'd walk away if F1 became infested with the oil burner disease.

OpenToSuggestions · 5 Mar 2010 at 21:18

F1 should be going faster and faster year upon year.

I want refuelling back and to have less restrictions on the engines.

F1 should be way faster, so what if there is a massive crash now and then, that is why the drivers get $millions per year.

I want to see more cars flying off into the tyre wall, more engines blowing during a race.

F1 should be nothing except a showcase of how powerful a car can be. Sod this economy and co2 stuff.

JRS · 5 Mar 2010 at 21:35

Lunatic Dreyfus said:
I think I'd walk away if F1 became infested with the oil burner disease.

I don't think it should be made mandatory, but it still should be allowed though. Lets get some freedom back - mandate an engine capacity and a maximum amount of fuel, and let the teams go at it for the engines. Powerful and thirsty versus the less powerful but more frugal motors. Diesel can be a part of that as well - no way of doing it naturally aspirated, so turbos have to feature. You could have the situation where there are large displacement N/A motors going up against smaller N/A motors going up against even smaller blown engines and turbodiseasels in the mix as well.

That has to be more exciting than everyone running a 2.4 V8.

rypt · 5 Mar 2010 at 22:49

mglover070588 said:
F1 should be going faster and faster year upon year.

I want refuelling back and to have less restrictions on the engines.

F1 should be way faster, so what if there is a massive crash now and then, that is why the drivers get $millions per year.

I want to see more cars flying off into the tyre wall, more engines blowing during a race.

F1 should be nothing except a showcase of how powerful a car can be. Sod this economy and co2 stuff.

Drivers will only go as fast as they feel safe, so you can add 10000000bhp, they still won't go faster than they feel safe.

OpenToSuggestions · 5 Mar 2010 at 22:51

rypt said:
Drivers will only go as fast as they feel safe, so you can add 10000000bhp, they still won't go faster than they feel safe.

Of course they would go faster. If a driver was not going as fast as he possibly could then he would be replaced very quickly.

If the drivers drove to feel 'safe' they wouldn't be doing 200mph.

F1 is all about taking the car to the edge. If a driver is out for a Sunday drive because he is scared then he would be laughed at.

rypt · 5 Mar 2010 at 22:52

mglover070588 said:
Of course they would go faster. If a driver was not going as fast as he possibly could then he would be replaced very quickly.

If the drivers drove to feel 'safe' they wouldn't be doing 200mph.

Replaced by someone who feels safe enough going faster than the previous chap. End of the day, the drivers will not go faster than they deem to be an "acceptable" risk