jeremy clarkson v the mail and mirror

Castiel · 2 May 2014 at 00:00

Robosapien said:
Why is your sig that of a well known superhero....do you think you are superior to others? Are you building a super race?

I do not think I am superior......I have no need of a super-race.

Robosapien · 2 May 2014 at 00:05

Castiel said:
I do not think I am superior......I have no need of a super-race.

Cool.

MrMarvelous · 2 May 2014 at 00:06

Mirror needs to be closed down just like the News of the World was.

Castiel · 2 May 2014 at 00:08

Craterloads said:
Hold your horses there buddy, no ones playing semantics nor was the "white people" remark I made suppose to have been taken seriously. Seems you got the wrong end of the stick.

It seems you have the wrong end of the stick then, because who said what Clarkson said, or in fact a nonsense poem by Kipling was to be taken seriously?...if its ok for you, then you should accept it's ok for them.

Another 19th century (earlier even) term for you..."hoist by your own petard"

Craterloads said:
What I find odd is the catching a black man by his toe, weird. Is it just me who finds that creepy, even with the fact it was popular a 100 years ago. Why would you teach that to kids.

What I find odd is that you continue to try to apply 21st century social morality onto 19th century literature as if it is some kind of judgement. The word was not derogatory, it was used in all kinds of literature and socially accepted ways, just like many other words that over time have evolved into the pejorative. That's it, there is nothing odd or weird about it.

Orionaut · 2 May 2014 at 00:08

Craterloads said:
What the hell is wrong with white people, who comes up with poems like that? Why would you teach children this? Appreciate it was a while ago but still, it's wierd.

I would challenge anybody (Well, any "White" person anyway) who isn't actually a "Child" (IE anybody over, say, 40) to categorically deny ever having used the old rhyme at some point in their lives!

It was routine playground banter in the Sixties and Seventies!

(I dare say there are people out there who are totally ignorant as to what the use of the rhyme was for, so, for your benefit, I will explain!....

As for the actual origins, I dont really know :confused:

, the use of the word "Holler" suggests an American origin but other than that I have no idea!))

Typically, An individual has to be picked out of a group (For whatever reason). One person does the picking and while saying the rhyme points at each individual in turn in time with the words of the rhyme.

The full rhyme is...

Eeny, Meeny, Miney, Mo!
Catch (a) ****** By (his) Toe,
If (he) Hollers, Let (him) Go!
Eeny Meeny, Miney, MO!

Whoever one was pointing at with the last "MO" was the chosen one!

(IIRC, the words in brackets didn't usually count for a change IYSWIM)

Since Clarkson is of a "Certain age" I would be astonished if this was not a routine part of his childhood/teenager-hood (Is that a word?) and I can certainly understand how he might end up using the rhyme amongst friends of a similar age.

Frankly, it is a non-issue!

Here endinth the (Non PC) Lesson!

rare · 2 May 2014 at 00:10

What I find odd is the catching a black man by his toe, weird. Is it just me who finds that creepy, even with the fact it was popular a 100 years ago. Like coloured people were some sort of collectable objects, stickem in a jar. Why would you teach that to kids.

Imperial nationalism was based on the very premise of being a superior race.

Castiel · 2 May 2014 at 00:17

rare said:
Imperial nationalism was based on the very premise of being a superior race.

British imperialist Jingoism was based on National superiority, not racial superiority.

Craterloads · 2 May 2014 at 00:17

Castiel said:
It seems you have the wrong end of the stick then, because who said what Clarkson said, or in fact a nonsense poem by Kipling was to be taken seriously?...if its ok for you, then you should accept it's ok for them.

Another 19th century (earlier even) term for you..."hoist by your own petard"

Not interested in these silly games you've gone off on one for some reason, perhaps you took something to heart. I don't care Clarkson said n***** or not silly.

What I find odd is that you continue to try to apply 21st century social morality onto 19th century literature as if it is some kind of judgement. The word was not derogatory, it was used in all kinds of literature and socially accepted ways, just like many other words that over time have evolved into the pejorative. That's it, there is nothing odd or weird about it.

I don't care about the word n***** and it's evolving meaning. What I find weird is the whole catching one by the toe. And if it Hollas let it go etc didn't you think that was off when being taught that. No judgment just wierd, kids would be taught that up till the mid half of the 20th century.

rare · 2 May 2014 at 00:18

British imperialist Jingoism was based on National superiority, not racial superiority.

In the main yes, but there were serious hints of a darwinist, racial element.

cm1179 · 2 May 2014 at 00:20

Orionaut said:
I would challenge anybody (Well, any "White" person anyway) who isn't actually a "Child" (IE anybody over, say, 40) to categorically deny ever having used the old rhyme at some point in their lives!

i was born end of 1979, grew up in the 80's and i can say that the first time i heard the word was when there was an eddie murphy film on in the late 80's (think it was beverley hills cop) it was on tv and i heard it and it went straight over my head but i remember there was an uproar about the fact it wasn't dubbed out a few days later.

films such as boyz n the hood, menace to society etc and hearing rap music in the early 90's made it more main stream in the uk imo as i always think of it as an american slave term. though i could be completely wrong.

it is a vile word and it is all too common in tarantino's films imo but i figure that is a true reflection of the scenes

Mickie · 2 May 2014 at 00:22

Whats the agenda ? Why is race making the news so much ? I don't get it..

Is it news papers trying to sway people away from ukip ? It's time to point out all the racists to show people how bad an idea it is voting ukip and against outing Europe ?

Is it because everyone's just watched 12 years a slave so lets set up a witch hunt for any racists living in today's world..

Peoples minds must be currently fixed on the colour of someones skin because of ukip, so lets find more racist people..

What a load of old ********, is it really news..

Castiel · 2 May 2014 at 00:22

Craterloads said:
Not interested in these silly games you've gone off on one for some reason, perhaps you took something to heart. I don't care Clarkson said n***** or not silly.

I couldn't care less what you think, I just found the terminology of your post ironic.

As is your subsequent attempt to extricate yourself from that irony.

Craterloads said:
I don't care about the word n***** and it's evolving meaning. What I find weird is the whole catching one by the toe. And if it Hollas let it go etc didn't you think that was off when being taught that. No judgment just wierd, kids would be thought that up till the mid half of the 20th century.

Jabbawocky was weird as well, why would you teach children that? Just So Stories were strange...why teach those?

Its a poem, nothing more.

If you want to get a bit more enraged...look up the original published title of "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christie.

cm1179 · 2 May 2014 at 00:24

back onto clarkson, i think he's seriously sweating over this because the media want to burn him. if piers morgan gets onside with the press then he could never quite be the same presenter again :/

Castiel · 2 May 2014 at 00:25

rare said:
In the main yes, but there were serious hints of a darwinist, racial element.

Largely based on cultural superiority rather than purely racial however...hence the effort to Western Orientate the Empire.

adolf hamster · 2 May 2014 at 00:26

ahh the media, telling us not to panic by first explaining exactly why it is we should be panicking in the first place.

who would have even known about this non-issue if it wasn't for them?

One · 2 May 2014 at 00:27

Aren't the majority of 'The Mirror's' readers racist white van men who identify with Clarkson completely anyway?

Craterloads · 2 May 2014 at 00:33

Castiel said:
I couldn't care less what you think, I just found the terminology of your post ironic.

As is your subsequent attempt to extricate yourself from that irony.

Honestly I don't even know what you are talking about, and what you find ironic. Genuinely something was lost in translation and your worked up about something/nothing and trying to be witty.

Jabbawocky was weird as well, why would you teach children that? Just So Stories were strange...why teach those?

Its a poem, nothing more.

It's a poem about catching black people by the toe like your some big old ogre plucking up danzels in distress. And letting them go if they holla/scream. What kind of story is that, surely even in the 60s/70s you would know better than that. Treating coloured people like toys, subhuman I guess is how it comes across as, which is what I probably find weird / odd especially when taught to kids.

Perhaps it's before my time and I just don't get it.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 2 May 2014 at 00:39

Craterloads said:
Like coloured people were some sort of collectable objects, stickem in a jar. Why would you teach that to kids.

Does it take a lot of careful concentration to deliberately use offensive terminology :confused:

Castiel · 2 May 2014 at 00:40

Craterloads said:
Honestly I don't even know what you are talking about, and what you find ironic. Genuinely something was lost in translation and your worked up about something/nothing and trying to be witty.

Clearly you don't, or at least can't admit it to yourself because you certainly understood the irony earlier when you said you were not serious about it...stop digging, you'll fall in. And more irony abounds in that you were the one who got all enraged in your initial post asking "what the hell is wrong with white people"...you can't see the double irony in that...if you say so. It's not important anyway.

Craterloads said:
It's a poem about catching black people by the toe like your some big old ogre plucking up danzels in distress. And letting them go if they holla/scream. What Kind of story is that, surely even in the 60s/70s you would know better than that. Treating coloured people like toys, subhuman I guess is how it comes across as, which is what I probably find weird / odd especially when taught to kids.

Well, that's not what the poem is about, but then did you read it? Probably not.

Craterloads said:
Perhaps it's before my time and I just don't get it.

Clearly you don't get it. It just a poem.

rare · 2 May 2014 at 00:40

Largely based on cultural superiority rather than purely racial however...hence the effort to Western Orientate the Empire.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I am just saying there was a serious undertone of racial superiority, heck even the capacity for racial tolerance was seen as an element of racial superiority.