Job advertisements, Why do they do it!

Kreeeee said:
They are performing the same job with 20% higher output in the same time as me, so yes they deserve more pay.

You job title doesn't entitle you to the same remuneration as everyone else with that same title... that's the definition of entitlement :cry::cry::rolleyes:
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Cool. **** you then secrets in a job it is. :D
Next time don't ask anyone for any help, good luck. :p

So you are saying someone who does the same job shouldn't get the same pay with the same job title?
 
Kreeeee said:
Do you think someone toxic with an attitude problem (look in the mirror) deserves the same pay as a team player who supports the development of others and gets their work done efficiently rather than blaming the world for their poor salary just because they have the same job title?
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:) Someone toxic with an attitude problem wouldn't be working at the same place that's for sure.
 
Bouton Aide said:
:) Someone toxic with an attitude problem wouldn't be working at the same place that's for sure.
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I understand where you are coming from and I used to think the same back when I was young. I wondered why I was sat next to contractors doing the same (but worse performance than me) job getting paid £500+ a day when I was on about 12k.

I'm afraid this will never end in the corporate world. You have to suck it up and gain that experience or skillset making you command better salary or contractual rate.

Your logic works for when people are like robots and all output the same. But we are human... We offer different levels of output and effectiveness for a given role, and that tends to be rewarded differently to try to compensate the differing levels.

A classic one is when you work in a similar role to someone but that other person has been there for literally years protected, invinsible. The silver haired surfers waiting for redundancy... I've worked with people UNDER me in MY team who were on more than me due to this. They pocketed small payrise after small payrise year after year after year for 15-20 years.

Stuff like that happens and it's not always right but mostly we need to have the tolerance to pay differently to account for situations mentioned above where you have a team of say 20 DevOps engineers all with differing experience and skills. You can't have DevOps engineer level 1 - 10 as that would demotivate an cause issues in itself. This is why people don't talk about what they are on generally. Often you might have DevOps engineer junior and senior to mitigate this a tad, but it's still a bit grey as to when you cross over. Sometimes senior roles are simply that you manage some staff...which is lame.

Your attitude will not get you far. You have to play the game.
 
Bouton Aide said:
Really even though they where doing the same job? I don't ****** think so. So does that mean if I keep a secret on an easier way to do a job that entitles me to 20% more pay?

Alright from now on then **** everyone else I'll just keep secrets and take all the pay. ;)
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This is such a weird way to look at it and I can only agree with Kreeeee's comments. In the situation you've constructed, the most appropriate way to act would be to propose your "secret" to your superiors to change process/improve the knowledge base or as part of whatever continuous improvement you have already going on, and then use it as evidence of having a direct impact on increased productivity when it comes round to justifying your payrise at the appropriate time.
 
I remember my first full time job out of uni, helpdesk for a software company, think I started on £17.5k and after 1 year was on £18.5k. A member of the team left (same job title) and they put out a job advert.. for about £22k. I asked if I can be matched to that as how can someone brand new be earning more than me, and I would most likely have to train them up. They refused saying I already had a pay increase this year, so I handed them my resignation letter the following week.

Companies will always try to take the **** and pay as least as possible. We always have the choice to leave.
 
Bouton Aide said:
Cool. **** you then secrets in a job it is. :D
Next time don't ask anyone for any help, good luck. :p

So you are saying someone who does the same job shouldn't get the same pay with the same job title?
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Your job may be this black and white but some/most are not.

If you are resetting passwords and telling people to turn their computer on and off then it's a bit more understandable.

Most roles are about providing value. It's hard to give people the "secret" to giving a clear and concise presentation, this takes time to become good at. It's hard to ask people to write a technology roadmap for a large organisation, many examples, fill in the blanks.

This is why grades are a good thing, as 10 years experience vs 2 months experience typically makes a massive difference to the value you bring.
 
A2Z said:
I remember my first full time job out of uni, helpdesk for a software company, think I started on £17.5k and after 1 year was on £18.5k. A member of the team left (same job title) and they put out a job advert.. for about £22k. I asked if I can be matched to that as how can someone brand new be earning more than me, and I would most likely have to train them up. They refused saying I already had a pay increase this year, so I handed them my resignation letter the following week.

Companies will always try to take the **** and pay as least as possible. We always have the choice to leave.
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That same thing happened where I worked; new guy came in and the young, keen support guy who was training him found how what he was being paid & wasn't happy so asked for a raise... denied.

However, some extra irony here, keen support guy obvs went job hunting but in this case, ended up getting a support role at the company new guy had just left... the companies ended up swapping employees and giving each a pay rise. In both cases, they'd have several months being unproductive as they learned how to support new applications.
 
fatbatman said:
This is why grades are a good thing, as 10 years experience vs 2 months experience typically makes a massive difference to the value you bring.
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Grades are good in the sense of providing a framework for progression (and rewarding more productive employees) but they do come with some challenges in terms of articulating the difference between levels in a consistent way that on the one hand provides a progression path but on the other hand doesn't lead to dis-satisfaction "why is X a level 3 and I'm only a level 2? I'm ticking the boxes for level 3!". It is kind of needed though because you often want to give someone an internal 'promotion' but don't want them to be quite at the same level of more experienced staff. I had this dilemma once when promoting a junior dev, she deserved (and got) a big raise but I didn't want her to be suddenly earning the same as developers with 10 years more experience and additional skills.
 
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