Soldato
Job offer, is this normal practice
- Thread starter chroniclard
- Start date
Ah, oops! Yeah probably best not to just ask people like that in interviews can cause issues at times.
Soldato
Well I had no idea, but the way in which she reacted surprised me. I'm speaking to the MD today (I think) so I don't know whether that will factor into the conversation. They had me do an assignment which I don't think I did very well in considering I don't know the industry, so we'll see.
Derailing someone else's thread here, apologies!
You should be rinsing as much out of a job move as you can in this market....huge skills shortage, rampant inflation. A job move is the easiest payrise you'll ever get.
Ah it’s kinda relevant.
It’s best not to bring it up or ask about it unless you know you’re dealing with HR or the hiring manager.
Happened with a friend of mine, he was interviewing someone before they were to get on a video call with his boss in NYC, they mentioned salary and dropped in the range for the role… salary they’d mentioned was more than he was on! So sure enough, after the interview, he was straight onto his boss kicking off and demanding a raise.
General advice I’ve had and would tend to go with would be to try and avoid bringing it up at all (you can ask the recruiter or HR contact the range outside of/before the interview process), ideally you want them to bring it up at the point they make you an offer… then you ask for more. Them trying to feel you out/narrow you down to a figure before any offer of a job has been made puts you/the candidate at a disadvantage.
Soldato
I took the call this morning, it's an interesting company. I had a couple of other calls lined up so figured I'd take them all at once. They asked what I was on. I told them +20% and she was like, "so what would your expectation be to move?" Well, more than that but at the same time it's all about the overall package. Base is really only one part of the picture.
Hah, the words you should have actually used were "it's open for discussion"
.But yeah absolutely, there's no point in going for a role that pays 5k more in salary if the expected working hours are another 10 per month, the pension contributions are crap, and there's no private healthcare etc offered.
My missus is going through a similar thing now. Ex-colleagues at a different hospital are putting together a role that she might be interested in. The problem is she likes where she's at now, it's a 10 minute drive around the corner, and the overtime pay is excellent. A move to a new location would be at least an hours drive each way, and without any guarantee of overtime, or what the rates might be. By the time you've factored in your fuel costs for a daily 2 hour commute, and wear/tear on a car, you've probably eaten through 3-4k a year, so you'd be needing to earn probably 6-7k prior to tax just to even cover that. So when you then take into any possible overtime, plus a bit extra to actually make it worth your time, you're now looking at needing an extra 10k which is a substantial amount over the typical base salary for her type of role.
Can overstating what you earn come back to bite you when you join them and they find out that you were actually earning 10-20% less than what you said though?
I've only moved jobs a handful of times. When I was asked how much I was on, I was honest, and the offers were 5-10% above this which I was happy with, so didn't counter.
I've only moved jobs a handful of times. When I was asked how much I was on, I was honest, and the offers were 5-10% above this which I was happy with, so didn't counter.
Soldato
Ah it’s kinda relevant.
It’s best not to bring it up or ask about it unless you know you’re dealing with HR or the hiring manager.
Happened with a friend of mine, he was interviewing someone before they were to get on a video call with his boss in NYC, they mentioned salary and dropped in the range for the role… salary they’d mentioned was more than he was on! So sure enough, after the interview, he was straight onto his boss kicking off and demanding a raise.
General advice I’ve had and would tend to go with would be to try and avoid bringing it up at all (you can ask the recruiter or HR contact the range outside of/before the interview process), ideally you want them to bring it up at the point they make you an offer… then you ask for more. Them trying to feel you out/narrow you down to a figure before any offer of a job has been made puts you/the candidate at a disadvantage.
Kind of! I had no idea she wasn't any of those people. I only realised when she was shocked that I'd mentioned a figure.
Haha that is awkward! Can't blame them at all. I nkow my close colleagues salaries and we collude for that very reason. Fortunately, my work has system that they stick to which generally prevents disparities.
On this one, there was no recruiter involved. I put my CV in on their website and someone just contacted me and set up an interview. I feel like they should have informed her at some poin though.
Honestly, given the type of role I think it is I'm going to aim for £20k above my currently salary, so nearly a 40% increase. I know it'll fall somewher ein the middle, but given that it might be quite antisocial and therefore completely opposite to my current position, I need to make up for that somehow.
How would they know, unless you revealed that?
Either way by then it's unlikely to make any difference, if they weren't happy with your salary expectations, they would have told you so, and withdrawn the offer from the table.
It'll be on your p45 that you give to your new employer isn't it? As you can tell, its been a while since I changed jobs so I might be talking ****
For a small family run company maybe so, but for most the P45 will just go to HR to update the system - they're unlikely to have a clue what you negotiated your salary at, and your new manager is very unlikely to see the P45.
This can be industry-specific, like you say in some cases the manager isn't going to see nor care about some forms sent to HR and the HR/payroll person will have no clue what you said you were paid previously in the interview so you can probably get away with it in plenty of places.
I guess a slight fudge (where you've perhaps rounded up a bit or given some slightly inflated comp figure where you've included some benefits etc..) isn't likely to be flagged up anyway, however, if someone were to have done something really silly like claim they were earning double and had the usual higher offer on top of that then that sort of big jump in pay is rather sus and will be more apparent to payroll people - might well be flagged up.
If you want a really big jump then it's much safer to avoid declaring your current comp than to lie about it.
In some industries, like finance etc.. there will be comprehensive background checks by a third-party vetting agency - they're quite thorough, they'll likely want to see your P45 + they'll be checking potentially everything covering the last 10 years, including things like salary, exact dates of employment etc.. - gap in your CV? You need to not just explain it but provide evidence for your claim.
Yes, checks for financial services firms are very in depth. Nothing to worry about though really if you have nothing to hide. If asked what you current salary is, I would round it up and include any bonuses in negotiations. It's up to them what they do when they discover that you lied when they receive the P45 info. If you are on a 6 month probation then it may not get firmed up. I have seen this happen. It's always a gamble. You have to play your cards as you deem fit.
" It's up to them what they do when they discover that you lied when they receive the P45 info."
Just one thing to consider, it isn't always up to them. You can have situations where various clients have also agreed to some third-party vetting company handling it and acting on behalf of everyone's interests (this saves the various clients from all wanting their vetting companies to check each staff member too), fail the vetting in that scenario though having been caught lying and you get sacked, no discretion involved there as it is part of the contractual obligation towards the clients re: people who have access to their data etc...
Just one thing to consider, it isn't always up to them. You can have situations where various clients have also agreed to some third-party vetting company handling it and acting on behalf of everyone's interests (this saves the various clients from all wanting their vetting companies to check each staff member too), fail the vetting in that scenario though having been caught lying and you get sacked, no discretion involved there as it is part of the contractual obligation towards the clients re: people who have access to their data etc...
Yes it's expected to ask for more. If they didn't baulk at Y when you mentioned it then it is not unreasonable to expect more than X+Y/2.
One point I'd add about the 'hiring managers' piece mentioned above is that hiring managers don't always have full autonomy in this area. When I was a head of department I didn't actually have a staff budget per se (most staff costs were cross-charged to projects or other cost centres) it was more a case of what would HR let me pay somebody. So there was no incentive for me to try and 'save money' on salaries, if anything it was more the other way, I was wary of bringing in someone on too low a salary as then they might have more incentive to leave and work elsewhere.
One point I'd add about the 'hiring managers' piece mentioned above is that hiring managers don't always have full autonomy in this area. When I was a head of department I didn't actually have a staff budget per se (most staff costs were cross-charged to projects or other cost centres) it was more a case of what would HR let me pay somebody. So there was no incentive for me to try and 'save money' on salaries, if anything it was more the other way, I was wary of bringing in someone on too low a salary as then they might have more incentive to leave and work elsewhere.
Have submitted my windmilling, will see how it goes. 
Ok, so I got an improved offer, its nearer to the aforementioned Y and a nice bump from current salary so going to accept it. 