Joe Rogan and Spotify

Chuk_Chuk said:
So ignoring the governement and doing their own research :D
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That's all fine and should be encouraged to a degree. What shouldn't be encouraged is people thinking they know better than everyone else because they've watched a ***** vid on youtube.

People in general have very poor critical thinking skills so shouldn't be making a habit of making and following their own "opinions" from their own "research" especially when their actions impact others. There are real experts to listen in every field of human endeavour.

One thing that's so utterly appalling about this government is that it's further eroding public trust and confidence in "experts". It will take a generation to come back, if it ever does.
 
inogen said:
One thing that's so utterly appalling about this government is that it's further eroding public trust and confidence in "experts". It will take a generation to come back, if it ever does.
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it will never come back. Most people get more of their opinions from social media and other idiots than they do from anyone even approaching an expert. The world is increasingly complex and people want someone to give them a nice little soundbite that they can parrot as their opinion that oversimplifies everything.
 
Screeeech said:
For people spouting different opinions, (for example anti-vaccine) I didn't listen to their medical message, I did however investigate their backgrounds (around 15-20 well known people) and discovered a lot of problems. Previous convictions for fraud, disbarment from medical institutions, scam companies and massive great conflict of interests. (for example, people with vested interests and lots of money held up in different covid treatments, which have since been proven to not work)

Where you have a maverick or outlier, or somebody giving an alternate message from the mainstream, there are normally red flags and ulterior motives going on. Covid has seen a new wave of scammers and liars intentionally propagating lies to make a bit of cash, and they're fooling far too many people.



Yep - trying to understand what's being written in medical journals, intended for a medically qualified audience is a million miles outside of anything I know. I can read them - but I have absolutely no experience or knowledge in being able to make any determination as to whether they're right or wrong - which does actually matter, a lot.

When I had a problem with my eczema, I didn't spend till 3am each night reading complicated dermatology documents about skin conditions and treatments, I made an appointment with a dermatologist.
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So you do think for yourself. You were able to do your own research and decide who you thought you should listen to. You did have the intelligence to make up your own mind. This is what I'm saying people should be allowed to do instead of having people decide what information they're allowed to hear.

It's worth noting that the mainstream has been wrong consistently throughout all of this. This means you must have believed a lot of misinformation!
 
Jones said:
It's worth noting that the mainstream has been wrong consistently throughout all of this. This means you must have believed a lot of misinformation!
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Whilst the mainstream has got some things wrong, when it has, at the time, it's still been scientific consensus, when that consensus changes, through data availability and scientific method then so does media reporting on the whole. That is how we know things were gotten "wrong". That is not misinformation and it shouldn't embolden anyone to buy into non MSM alt "facts". It's not weirdos on Youtube that the scientific community listen to and say "wow, do you know what, such and such has got a great point, let's investigate".
 
fez said:
Most people get more of their opinions from social media and other idiots than they do from anyone even approaching an expert.
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not so fast listening to rogan (do people really listen to that for 3hours) - but analogous to fast food, pre-packed meals, goosto .... someone else has done the hard work so you you dont have to, and can sit down and be numbed by netflix.
 
Jones said:
You were able to do your own research and decide who you thought you should listen to. You did have the intelligence to make up your own mind.
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You're comparing Apples and Oranges.

You don't need specialist medical knowledge to read an official court judgement about how a fake anti-vaccine doctor was convicted for fraud. Or to see that a doctor who says the vaccines are bad, is involved with investments with other treatments which don't seem to work - leading to a questionable conflict of interest.

Jones said:
It's worth noting that the mainstream has been wrong consistently throughout all of this. This means you must have believed a lot of misinformation!
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I don't think the mainstream has been wrong consistently, they've made some mistakes (because nobody anywhere has been right 100% of the time on this). As more information has come in, the general consensus of wearing masks, socially distancing and getting vaccinated turns out to have been effective and works well.
 
dLockers said:
Let's think:

  • Dentist - yes agreed
  • Automotive Mechanic - yes mostly
  • Black Cab Driver - yes mostly
  • Building Architect - yes far too much room for subjectivity, insane to suggest you'd invite an architect round and give him full rein unless you have none of your own ideas, are completely happy with anything, and have a bottomless bank account
  • Lawyer/Solicitor - yes mostly
  • Heating System - yes mostly
  • in a corporate setting Other Business Functions - yes

What was the point you were making?
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When it comes to covid, I'm firmly in the believe the experts camp rather than 'did my own research'.

But I don't think you're on steady ground saying that it's a good way to do things to switch off your brain completely with this many things.
 
dl8860 said:
When it comes to covid, I'm firmly in the believe the experts camp rather than 'did my own research'.

But I don't think you're on steady ground saying that it's a good way to do things to switch off your brain completely with this many things.
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So you didn't wear a mask when covid first appeared?
 
dl8860 said:
When it comes to covid, I'm firmly in the believe the experts camp rather than 'did my own research'.

But I don't think you're on steady ground saying that it's a good way to do things to switch off your brain completely with this many things.
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I never at all suggested switching my brain off. However you'll note for the categories I put forward there is a clear mapping to recognised experts. The issue with big social platforms is that people with a following appear "like experts". Basically a whole bunch of people are victims of misinformation/contrary opinion/stick it to the man influencers.
 
Screeeech said:
I don't think the mainstream has been wrong consistently, they've made some mistakes (because nobody anywhere has been right 100% of the time on this). As more information has come in, the general consensus of wearing masks, socially distancing and getting vaccinated turns out to have been effective and works well.
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Yeah like those thousands of dead care home patients who listened to the advice at the time. You should absolutely listen to the expert, but I would also verify what they're saying to the best of your ability. It's a smart thing to do.
 
inogen said:
Whilst the mainstream has got some things wrong, when it has, at the time, it's still been scientific consensus, when that consensus changes, through data availability and scientific method then so does media reporting on the whole. That is how we know things were gotten "wrong". That is not misinformation and it shouldn't embolden anyone to buy into non MSM alt "facts". It's not weirdos on Youtube that the scientific community listen to and say "wow, do you know what, such and such has got a great point, let's investigate".
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This is not true. What are you basing this on? There were a lot of experts going against the mainstream opinion and they turned out to be right.

There were a lot of people saying it was likely to have come from the lab while the mainstream said it didn't. It's likely for political reasons why they tried to deny it came from the lab. It should also have been common sense that it likely came from there!

Same with masks. There were lots of experts going against the advice the mainstream (Whitty and the government) gave.

Then there is all that SAGE has predicted which were laughable at the time and wasn't ever going to happen (6000 deaths by January)

I could go on and on.

Screeeech said:
You're comparing Apples and Oranges.

You don't need specialist medical knowledge to read an official court judgment about how a fake anti-vaccine doctor was convicted for fraud. Or to see that a doctor who says the vaccines are bad, is involved with investments with other treatments which don't seem to work - leading to a questionable conflict of interest.



I don't think the mainstream has been wrong consistently, they've made some mistakes (because nobody anywhere has been right 100% of the time on this). As more information has come in, the general consensus of wearing masks, socially distancing and getting vaccinated turns out to have been effective and works well.
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This is the point. Allow people to hear the information and they can judge how reliable the source is. We don't need you to decide for people especially as you seem to lack good judgment yourself!

Wow. You don't think they have been consistently wrong? You seem to believe whatever you're told and are unable to questions things. I can see why you feel people need to be told what to think.
 
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inogen said:
I think you should look up the word "consensus". It does not mean everyone agrees.
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I know what it means. I'm saying there wasn't a general agreement. Not in the scientific community.

The mainstream was consistently wrong and not because we didn't know enough at the time.
 
dLockers said:
I never at all suggested switching my brain off. However you'll note for the categories I put forward there is a clear mapping to recognised experts. The issue with big social platforms is that people with a following appear "like experts". Basically a whole bunch of people are victims of misinformation/contrary opinion/stick it to the man influencers.
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What a crazy world we're in now.
 
inogen said:
That's all fine and should be encouraged to a degree. What shouldn't be encouraged is people thinking they know better than everyone else because they've watched a ***** vid on youtube.
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My post was actually a joke, however i agree with your statement here.

inogen said:
People in general have very poor critical thinking skills
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This is an issue i have with conversations I see on the internet (next to treating topics as if it is black and white) the average population has an average intelligence. I know i'm quoting you but this isn't targeted at you but none of us here are special, no matter what are mothers might say to us. And as cool as it is to dunk on peoples intelligence to win internet arguments to impress our internet friends, we are the average population (no exceptions) and therefore we are all of average intelligence no matter how desperately some try to draw the line right behind themselves. I just needed to vent that and this was a good opportunity.


Now this video popped up in my feed and I think it fits here.
This is a video talking about the history of Aspartame. I know how some people like to snoop into a youtubers video history, she makes videos discussing "diet" culture and weight loss.

 
Chuk_Chuk said:
This is an issue i have with conversations I see on the internet (next to treating topics as if it is black and white) the average population has an average intelligence. I know i'm quoting you but this isn't targeted at you but none of us here are special, no matter what are mothers might say to us. And as cool as it is to dunk on peoples intelligence to win internet arguments to impress our internet friends, we are the average population (no exceptions) and therefore we are all of average intelligence no matter how desperately some try to draw the line right behind themselves. I just needed to vent that and this was a good opportunity.
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Well yeah. Most people think they are above average intelligence and they clearly can't be all correct. But critical thinking is a method and a skill and a LOT of people just haven't been taught or acquired it, it's not a measure of natural intelligence.

Most people believe in things that when questioned on them, just ignore proofs and facts and carry on because they "believe". Be it UFOs, gods or don't believe in things because they'd rather believe it's hoax, like people who don't believe in the moon landings. It doesn't make them stupid. It just means they're blindsided by a prejudice and unable to process information properly on that subject. They are unable to critically assess the information and qualify their viewpoints. Everyone has that problem to a certain degree.

This is why alternative "facts" and people thinking their opinion is a valid as anyone else's is so dangerous a concept. It distorts, corrodes and corrupts shared reality.
 
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chroniclard said:
This mask argument is pretty feeble. Argument seems to be that because some misinformation, out of the tons spewed forth, might end up being true we should allow any old toss to infect the public.
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Where was that argument made? You asked for an example and were given one now you seem to be in denial.
 
How is the general public to account for the political motives of the experts or, at the very least, political pressure from the politicians who appointed the experts?

For instance, Fauci's emails have rendered him unworthy of trust in my view.

I submit the previous example:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...claration-covid-pandemic-lockdown-11640129116

"In public, Anthony Fauci and Francis Collins urge Americans to “follow the science.” In private, the two sainted public-health officials schemed to quash dissenting views from top scientists. That’s the troubling but fair conclusion from emails obtained recently via the Freedom of Information Act by the American Institute for Economic Research."
 
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