Soldato
Apparently they forgot all about it at Silverstone for the lap after Verstappen flew off, again with a digger on the Farm run-off.
Jules Bianchi thread for updates and discussion
- Thread starter knip
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Apparently they forgot all about it at Silverstone for the lap after Verstappen flew off, again with a digger on the Farm run-off.
It's not so black and white. It was his job to get around that track as fast as possible
Caporegime
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That couldn't be a dafter thing to say, all of it. Only he's responsible for safety, right, safety hasn't improved since the 60s at all when safety really was entirely up to the driver. Nonsense, track staff and FIA staff are very much responsible for safety of the drivers. FIA, Charlie and the hundreds of Marshals and cameras can see the conditions on the track. At no stage did Bianchi make the choice to have a freaking industrial piece of equipment on this side of the barriers while he was out there. Charlie or track personnel made this decision, NOT him.
Also, guess what, marshals don't HAVE to rush to a car. You know marshals have to be given permission to enter the track. THe argument that the recovery vehicle may have saved other lives is ludicrous and incorrect.
Again that is a KNOWN problem corner in the rain, likewise the FIA know double waved yellows don't work, the very rules around for years that EVERYONE knew about including those responsible for safety flat out know they encourage to go as fast as possible under waved yellows, single or double. There was no reason at all to let marshals or a recovery vehicle out on track till the corner was made safe. Double waved yellows in no way at all ensured safety for people to go the dangerous side of the barriers. NO ONE should have been out there till a safety car was deployed AND everyone was caught up to it and were at a controlled pace.
Caporegime
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People keep completely ignoring the changing track conditions, how did Sutil go off. Drivers don't know the 100% safe speed yet the rules mean you have to be as close to the limit as possible rather than having a rule that means people go no where near the limit of safety.
It was raining heavily with worsening track conditions, these are the very conditions drivers go off in frequently throughout the history of the sport, again this is all absolutely known before anyone sends marshals or vehicles out into the area. Why has any F1 driver ever gone off in the wet? because before you get to the corner you don't know what is a safe speed for it? How many times in the history of F1 has one guy gone off in changing conditions followed by multiple other drivers in the same corner even though they all went slower every lap?
The probability of another car going off on a notorious corner in changing and worsening conditions was significantly higher than normal thus making a decision to send people out without neutralising the race was absolutely reckless.
As you say, his job is to get round as fast as possible, double yellows, single yellow, it encourages you to skirt the safety line. The driver can't see if it's raining on that corner while he's going around, he doesn't know if that corner is getting worse while on the opposite side of the track, he placed his safety in the... safety officers, who are paid to make decisions about when it's safe or not to recover vehicles, without hindsight, with years of similar incidents it was 100% clear it wasn't safe yet. It's 100% clear double yellows do not, have never and will never neutralise the race or make anywhere safe, it's a warning and not much else.
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Soldato
You do like to talk a lot of crap don't you. It was under double yellow so he knew there was something going on around there. He decided to ignore it and drive like nothing was going on. He was right at the back so it's not like he even had a chance of a point(s). Yes arguably NO ONE should have been there but neither was he supposed to go like he did there.
Guess what each driver is responsible for their own safety just like you are when you're driving. Track staff and FIA are there to manage safety, drivers are responsible for their own and other drivers safety when on track. You can only do so much from the sidelines but you can't prevent drivers making a mistake.
Sutil crashed during the race when everyone was racing. Bianchi was warned there was an accident in front of him and was meant to slow down, he might have even seen Sutil crashing as it happened right behind him on the previous lap.
He was in a low car, it was raining and the light was bad. He's not in a great place to decide if the puddles deep enough to throw him off the track or not. He relies on race controls judgement that is ok to go racing
Sutil crashing doesn't really tell bianchi much, he doesn't know he aquaplane doff, he might of had a car failure or ran wide etc
It's not the 1950s we don't send drivers out tracks like the old spa circuit and tell them they're on their own...
Sutil crashing doesn't really tell bianchi much, he doesn't know he aquaplane doff, he might of had a car failure or ran wide etc
It's not the 1950s we don't send drivers out tracks like the old spa circuit and tell them they're on their own...
Soldato
If a driver doesn't know what the track is like then perhaps he shouldn't be on the track at all. Some guy sat indoors certainly won't have a clue.
But problem here is that he wasn't supposed to be racing at that point and if he doesn't know track condition then he wasn't meant to go that fast. As sad as it is he made a mistake/ ignored warnings. Yes maybe something else could have been done to avoid it but there's nothing you can do if people decide to do their own thing.
But problem here is that he wasn't supposed to be racing at that point and if he doesn't know track condition then he wasn't meant to go that fast. As sad as it is he made a mistake/ ignored warnings. Yes maybe something else could have been done to avoid it but there's nothing you can do if people decide to do their own thing.
Or maybe it's racing and they've all ignored it for decades, which is why other series have used things like virtual safety cars. If everyone else ignores it, you have to as well. You have no choice.
Same reason in refuelling days there was a maximum flow rate. A lot of the time the organisation has to protect the participants from themselfs and others.
Exactly. The Health and safety at work act is pretty clear. The organisers have a responsibility too and it's clear that both drivers and organisers ignored safety issues around yellow flags, the fact we now have a virtual safety car speaks volumes.
Except he very much wasn't on his own. There were double waved yellow flags, flashing lights both track side and on his dash in front of him, and his team in his ear over the radio.
Or maybe it's racing and they've all ignored it for decades, which is why other series have used things like virtual safety cars. If everyone else ignores it, you have to as well. You have no choice.
Same reason in refuelling days there was a maximum flow rate. A lot of the time the organisation has to protect the participants from themselfs and others.
If you drove through a 30mph village at 60 every day because there was no camera or anyone ever enforcing the limit, and then one day you crashed and injured someone, would you claim it was the governments fault for allowing you to ignore the speed limit all this time?
Stupid comparison is stupid.
Soldato
As said, race control should have taken the decision out of the drivers hands, as they do most of the time.
Was Bianchi driving too fast? Yes, obviously. Did he ignore double-waved yellows? Yes, as did others.
But the fact remains that he shouldn't have been able to go that fast as there was never a clearer safety car in F1. They didn't even deploy the safety car until a minute after Bianchi himself had crashed, presumably when it became apparent that the medical car was also required!
Was Bianchi driving too fast? Yes, obviously. Did he ignore double-waved yellows? Yes, as did others.
But the fact remains that he shouldn't have been able to go that fast as there was never a clearer safety car in F1. They didn't even deploy the safety car until a minute after Bianchi himself had crashed, presumably when it became apparent that the medical car was also required!
Soldato
Really?
It's not crown green bowling. It says "Motorsport is Dangerous" all over the circuit and the tickets, and the competitors know it. Anyway, pretty sure the "wear a yellow tabard when walking across the car park" act isn't enforceable in an international sports event in Japan.
So why did they change their approach and give us the virtual safety car? Because they have a responsibility.
Man of Honour
It's really not. In both scenarios the decision on using an appropriate speed is entirely down to the driver.
If the driver doesn't want to lose time, then it's a risk they are taking themselves. Nobody is forcing their hand. Just look at Lauda who retired from a race when he felt it was unsafe.
No ones forcing their hands, good god the lack of thinking in this thread is shocking.
Only ~20 places on the planet and no pressure. Yeah ok. Good god, stupidity is high. Then comparing it to another stupid comparison. Once, he rod that. And he racer many times when he didn't feel safe.
Knew I shouldn't have come back in here.
Only ~20 places on the planet and no pressure. Yeah ok. Good god, stupidity is high. Then comparing it to another stupid comparison. Once, he rod that. And he racer many times when he didn't feel safe.
Knew I shouldn't have come back in here.