Junior Doctors Strikes

Is the strike purely pay related, or other issues?
Purely on pay, no I don’t think they should go on strike.
Surely, if you commit to medical school etc to become a doctor, you know well in advance the general pay and working hours to expect.
None of the take home salaries in simply money terms, are poor, and after a few years look quite decent - yr5 on is what, 60k a year gross?
This isn’t just a job you take because there was nothing else and now you’re stuck there.
 
Emo_hug said:
i'll add a lot of them get double their base pay because they do over time. so the figure isnt truely representative.
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keep in mind a working week is 48h, its hard to do extra shifts as a locum but they are somewhat supply and demand driven so rates can be higher. Its not really overtime, its extra contractual work and it may be in another hospital.
If you stay lake on a working day you don't really get overtime payment.
dowie said:
I don't like the fact they're going on strike but I do think they're underpaid.



That's odd, and not true for two close relatives in two different NHS trusts both at consultant level, they are/were 40 hours a week.

AFAIK 48 hours is the maximum you're supposed to work on average, it's not the defining characteristic of "full-time" as far as the NHS is concerned.
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consultants working week is 40h, other doctors are 48.
 
ajf said:
Is the strike purely pay related, or other issues?
Purely on pay, no I don’t think they should go on strike.
Surely, if you commit to medical school etc to become a doctor, you know well in advance the general pay and working hours to expect.
None of the take home salaries in simply money terms, are poor, and after a few years look quite decent - yr5 on is what, 60k a year gross?
This isn’t just a job you take because there was nothing else and now you’re stuck there.
Click to expand...

Well the pay was 26% higher 10 years ago, plus at the time you got free accommodation, did not have £80k of debt so they have moved the goal posts a little.


I agree you dont go into it for the money but i think its fair to say that these kids have the right to be comfortable and paid for the level of service they provide.

keep in mind a PA, Band 7 nurse in London is pay more than a ST5 doctor. Even a first year nurse in london is paid more than a new doctor.
 
Dr House said:
keep in mind a working week is 48h, its hard to do extra shifts as a locum but they are somewhat supply and demand driven so rates can be higher. Its not really overtime, its extra contractual work and it may be in another hospital.
If you stay lake on a working day you don't really get overtime payment.
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i appologies my coment was aimed at the rail drivers rather than medical staff.
i.e. driver base wage 60k but reality might be 120k as example base+overtime.
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i was trying to re-enforce the medical staff is under paid.
 
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I'm pretty sure you've just tried to use hourly pay figures to make a point - most jobs would look at salary and/or daily pay rates for contractors. A lot of these guys have side gigs earning money too. I don't know many poor doctors so not sure where the issue is - junior doctors don't get loads as they are starting out which makes sense?

Job advert local to me 80 -90k starting salary - https://jobserve.com/gb/en/search-j...-Kingdom/SPECIALTY-DOCTOR-E027043BCDFD24E273/
 
I do have side gigs but honestly there are very few that have things on the side.

Do you know many doctors? unless they come from money most young doctors are far from comfortable.

Yes they are starting out for the first year or 2 but from then on they have a LOT of responsibility.

Re that job, that is far far from the norm but it just goes to make a point that doctors are actually worth more than they are paid. If a JD made £90k no one would be complaining.
 
Emo_hug said:
i appologies my coment was aimed at the rail drivers rather than medical staff.
i.e. driver base wage 60k but reality might be 120k as example base+overtime.
www.cashfloat.co.uk

What is a Train Driver Salary in the UK?

Are you looking to become a train driver but not sure if it's for you. Here you can get information about the train driver salary, their pension and more...
www.cashfloat.co.uk www.cashfloat.co.uk

i was trying to re-enforce the medical staff is under paid.
Click to expand...

It's a completely different job but medics do get paid more than train drivers!

Train driver average circa 60k vs doctor average 76k.
 
nonconsultant medics do not make £76k full-time equivalent.

FY1 £29,384
FY2 £34,012
ST1/2 £40,257
ST3+ £51,017

That's base pay, for 40h week, you get paid pro rata because you do 48h and then a little premium for nights and weekends, but not £76k average.

Consultants are £88k
 
I’ll be supporting the strike action and am in support of all the public sector strikes.

Working conditions in the NHS are the worst that I’ve ever experienced and recruitment is a challenge with gaps appearing across pretty much every specialty. There are big problems now, but if the argument of “they go into it with their eyes open” is true, then no one in their right mind would train to be a nurse or a doctor right now, compounding the issues over the next 3-5 years. The government rhetoric of expanding nursing and medical school places is great, but it won’t cover the shift tonight!
 
I think the pay is mostly fine, certainly could be increased for carers, nurses etc.

However, I think the costs associated with it and working conditons are the real issue. Huge student loans, unpaid work/OT, unpaid residencies, insurances, long hours under obviously stressful conditions and so on.
 
Dis86 said:
So...the salaries are known beforehand. Overtime is readily available due to a shortage of staff. Good holidays. Excellent pension.
It's not like people go in to it blind.
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Overtime rates are capped by trusts nationally to avoid a free market.

Holidays are the same as the public sector aren't they? What's good about it?

Study leave got axed, study budget evaporated. Now you pay for your own courses, indemnity (can't trust your employer to back you), GMC fees, college fees.

Pension is an absolute nightmare currently crippling consultant staffing because everyone is getting hit by imaginary pension growth on a fund that doesn't really exist as its a defined benefit scheme.

There's not many kids that have any awareness at 17 what they're signing up for. I know I just heard "pays just OK but pension is brilliant", then the pay dropped and the pension got chopped and turned into the current disaster.

I looked up what they're paying in Dubai currently for my job. £300k plus accommodation/flights and no tax. It's no suprise many leave.

I'm not a Junior Doctor any more but they would have my full support and I'm hoping the Consultants will act too.
 
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Rai200 said:
I think the pay is mostly fine, certainly could be increased for carers, nurses etc.

However, I think the costs associated with it and working conditons are the real issue. Huge student loans, unpaid work/OT, unpaid residencies, insurances, long hours under obviously stressful conditions and so on.
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agree on the working conditions but you know the JD's are paid about the same or a little less than the nurses and we all agree they are underpaid
 
Dr House said:
Well the pay was 26% higher 10 years ago, plus at the time you got free accommodation, did not have £80k of debt so they have moved the goal posts a little.


I agree you dont go into it for the money but i think its fair to say that these kids have the right to be comfortable and paid for the level of service they provide.

keep in mind a PA, Band 7 nurse in London is pay more than a ST5 doctor. Even a first year nurse in london is paid more than a new doctor.
Click to expand...
I'm not a doctor but I was going to make a similar point, someone claiming "they knew the pay and conditions when they became a doctor" is either clueless or being deliberately misleading as by the time you've finished training you're years down the line, and as you say pay and conditions have got much worse in the last 10 years so someone who qualified in 2010 would have needed to be be Mystic Meg to know what the government has done to the NHS pay and conditions today.
etc (15+ years after they started training).
 
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