Junior Doctors Strikes

[Minato]

The reality is the NHS in it's current ideological form is unaffordable, and will only continue to be more so with an ageing more complex population.

The economy is also not booming, and so future affordability is looking less and less probable.

Hence the push toward mass recruitment of 'noctors' like advanced nurse practitioners, advanced clinical practitioners, physician's associates etc. Anyone and everyone who basically wants a crack at cosplaying a doctor can have a go now. This will build up the staffing levels, so that when a formal split into a two tier private/public system happens, the doctors can run the private world and be paid appropriately, and those with means can afford it. And everyone else can get seen by the noctors on the free NHS, which will hopefully be much more unburdened.

The treasury will save billions over the long term.

 

[Murphy]

Putting it bluntly I think the public need to be asked...

Based on some people's thoughts on the state of the country we don't seem to have a very good track record when it comes to collective decision making.

 

[Rotty]

Of courses wages should keep going up in real terms. For as long as the economy is growing, wages should also grow; and the UK would benefit a lot from having a larger share of economic production going in wages anyway - not that we're doing badly on that front, but we could do better.

wages cannot always go up in real terms regardless, that's just ridiculous

 

[Mr Jack]

wages cannot always go up in real terms regardless, that's just ridiculous

So you think as the economy grows, labour should get a progressively smaller share? Why?

 

[Richie]

I've never had employer contributions on any NHS Payslip, ever. It's only ever shown my employee contribution (ie the scheme membership fee).

It showed both on mine when I was public sector but that was a while ago and wasn't NHS.

I don't have an issue with getting their pay up to where it should be but I do have an issue with restoring 10 years of effective cuts in the 1-2 year timescale.

It would be nice to have a guaranteed 5 year restoration plan but, given the state of the public purse at the moment, it would be hard to justify that right now. Couple that with the probability that other public services may become emboldened by the JD proposal (which the JDs might reject), I'm a little confused as to where the funding will.come from.

I think the 22% should be accepted and then see where things go from there.

 

[Rotty]

So you think as the economy grows, labour should get a progressively smaller share? Why?

That's not what I said and what I replied to

Don't worry about it

 

[Mr Jack]

That's not what I said and what I replied to

Yes, it is:

Of courses wages should keep going up in real terms. For as long as the economy is growing, wages should also grow; and the UK would benefit a lot from having a larger share of economic production going in wages anyway - not that we're doing badly on that front, but we could do better.

I've highlighted the relevant bit of the part of my message you quoted.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Either that or we'll move closer to the US style healthcare systems where doctors/consultants will do majority of their work private paid for by insurance or the wealthy.

Isn't that already happening? Maybe majority isn't a fair statement, but they are certainly making bank with consulting hours.

 

[Minstadave]

Isn't that already happening? Maybe majority isn't a fair statement, but they are certainly making bank with consulting hours.

The vast majority of healthcare in this country is delivered via the NHS. Apparently (according to the BMA) over half of NHS consultants do private work, which I find hard to believe.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

The vast majority of healthcare in this country is delivered via the NHS.

Right but most of the docs do private work on the side.

 

[Minstadave]

Right but most of the docs do private work on the side.

1 in 5 according to this:

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/8697/documents/88254/default/

Which fits much more with my experience (although I'm in a very low private practice speciality).

 

[Voltar]

Pay doctors more. I think they should be paid way more than the 22%. £36k to start training is peanuts and that’s after the 22% gets added. All that training and dedication and then the working conditions.

It’s one of those things where money should just be spent. Savings can be made elsewhere within the NHS. Or via benefits or any number of other places where public funding gets wasted.

 

[Buddy]

We are on the brink of GP industrial action. I posted this in the NHS thread a few weeks ago with no response or emotion - more concerned about general moaning. A reflection of Joe public.


https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/nhs-negligent-health-service.18943642/post-37112717

 

[heeeed]

The GP collective action is inevitable now. The amount we see and do is increasingly impossible. The big reset on what is standard patients to see is long overdue. I think it will be very hard to go back though after it’s done. The once again poxy offer from NHSE is only going to strengthen resolve

 

[Minstadave]

The GP collective action is inevitable now. The amount we see and do is increasingly impossible. The big reset on what is standard patients to see is long overdue. I think it will be very hard to go back though after it’s done. The once again poxy offer from NHSE is only going to strengthen resolve

I'm always amazed at what my wife tells me they manage in GP. To function with that level of complexity over such a broad scope is mad (as is my job yo be fair).

Type 2 diabetes/heart failure/hypertension all managed extensively in primary care without support.

 

[A2Z]

I've been fortunate enough to get RPI+ pay rises every year thanks to our unions. If I hadn't I would be as annoyed as you are @Minato, completely understand why you want to reject this offer.

Saying that, I don't think the government will commit to bringing it up to what it should be now straight away, maybe they will over a number of years. Either way power to the people and power to the unions, do what you have to do to look after #1.

 

[adam cool dude]

The reality is the NHS in it's current ideological form is unaffordable, and will only continue to be more so with an ageing more complex population.

The economy is also not booming, and so future affordability is looking less and less probable.

Hence the push toward mass recruitment of 'noctors' like advanced nurse practitioners, advanced clinical practitioners, physician's associates etc. Anyone and everyone who basically wants a crack at cosplaying a doctor can have a go now. This will build up the staffing levels, so that when a formal split into a two tier private/public system happens, the doctors can run the private world and be paid appropriately, and those with means can afford it. And everyone else can get seen by the noctors on the free NHS, which will hopefully be much more unburdened.

The treasury will save billions over the long term.

Imo AI will replace most doctors. Especially GP's. That is what will alleviate the problems.

 

[Minato]

Imo AI will replace most doctors. Especially GP's. That is what will alleviate the problems.

Complete and utter nonsense.

The complexity and medicolegal risk is such that we'll not be replaced in my lifetime.

 

[Noxia]

Imo AI will replace most doctors. Especially GP's. That is what will alleviate the problems.

No offence, but this comment reads like it's from someone who falls for an AI sticker on a washing machine.

 

[godinman]

I'd take a well trained AI model over some patronising old duffer googling symptoms tbh.