It's ridiculous to let a bunch of plebs decide if someone is guilty or not. A completely different set of people could come to a different conclusion, so how is that a fair and just system? The fact people are forced to do it further influences the outcome as I bet some people just want to get back to work and would side with the others if it meant getting out of it quicker.
Jury Service
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Soldato
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It was tough to stay awake after a few beers at lunchtime. But I believe you would be fined if you dozed off.
Caporegime
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so if you were to trip up over something and damaged ligaments in your ankle meaning you couldn't walk for 2 weeks.
would you end up in debt?
Caporegime
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which is why people who are high earners should be more inclined to do it. they will likely be more educated, have higher iq's and make the right decision.
rather than a chav trying to get another chav off the hook simply because chavs.
Have you done it? When I did the people on the jury with me took it seriously, I did 3 cases all fairly minor but all taken seriously. As for different juries coming to different conclusions, its unlikely but this is why we have an appeals process.
Yes and I will keep calling people who refuse to do it for money/greed reasons as selfish as that literally is the definition of selfish. There is a big difference to people saying they wouldn't want to do it (i didnt) to saying they would refuse to do it unelss they got paid thousands for it.
While I don't necessarily disagree that in today's day and age not all crimes should be tried against a jury as it stands, I think you do a disservice to juries.
But, for example, my friend got caught up in a fraud case. He was selling financial vehicles in good faith, but the underlying scheme turned out to be a massive fraud.
He told me about it as he had to go to crown court to testify etc and, even I with a degree in accountancy, having qualified as a financial advisor and having spent 20+ years working in and around finance functions found it hard to follow. How the layman is expected to follow such cases is beyond me.
This is the thing with both juries and everybody being able to vote, it made sense in a simpler world, bu the world is so complicated and the level of education/knowledge/intelligence required to fully understand it all is beyond a lot of people, myself included.
However I also served on a jury for a murder case which took 4 weeks. I can assure you that after sitting through 4 weeks of testimony we were drained and wanted to get home when we were asked for a verdict.
Not one person took the decision lightly though, we'd heard too much and the stakes were too high.
Soldato
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Yep I got told off by my judge, suggested I took a few less drinks with my lunch
Haha amazing! Although I bet he had also been drinking.
When I almost fell asleep, I was sitting at the back, and hit my head on the back of the jury box.
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Caporegime
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how do you know his judge was male?
also judges well the one who was proceding over the case i was picked for took the rules of the court room very seriously and even berated a lawyer for speaking to her from a seated position. she also had a dig at a police officer for not revising the case before attending court. she also had a dig at one of the jurors who had dozed off and told them they would be reprimanded if repeated.
Yep I got told off by my judge, suggested I took a few less drinks with my lunch
Well, if this was a typical person's attitude then it's an advert for abolishing juries. I genuinely can't believe people would celebrate, on the internet, drinking to the point it impaired your ability to follow the case.
Soldato
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Yeah good point, some judges are female. I just looked it up and in 2018, 29% of court judges were women. When I did jury service 20 years ago, it would have been a lot lower.
One of the judges at a case I sat on was the typical tv/film caricature. Upper class bumbling fool type, completely lost in the modern world. Think Boris Johnson's dad with less common sense.
Celebrate is a bit of a leap. The fact is that during the case there's plenty of times where the lawyers and judges are sorting things out and the jury are just sitting there waiting to be involved again. Neither of us said we fell asleep whilst someone was giving evidence.
And you would be shocked to learn that the pub was full of lawyers and court workers too.
No, because I get 3 months paid sick and I can easily work from home for an extended period.
If I had a sickness that kept me off longer than 3 months, I'd be pretty ******.
Caporegime
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doesn't your work cover jury service?
i get paid my full day rate whilst on jury service. i also accrue holidays and all other benefits including pension, etc. so i get paid the exact same amount as i normally would. all we need to do is bring in a copy of the citation.
this was actually an issue for one colleague who only worked 2 days a week who ended up on jury service on a case which went on for several years (the longest running case in scottish history was a fraud case). they had to attend court 5 days per week but i imagine was getting paid her normal rate for 2 and getting compensation for food and travel only for the other 3 days. which isn't ideal obviously.
Not sure I follow the financial issue there re: working 2 days a week etc...? Surely they don't lose out?
Caporegime
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basically they used to work 5 days a week and only just dropped down to 2 and then got picked for jury service.
they wanted more time to enjoy life. so to now be spending 5 days in a court as opposed to 2 days at work was the issue. financially yeah no impact but in terms of work/life balance completely ruined.
the fact it went on for several years too. they ended up getting someone to replace her it took that long and people thought she had retired.
Soldato
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Been called up for jury service in late July - at the crown court in central London ... Not sure how they're planning on running trials again but hoping it gets put off / delayed as I don't fancy commuting in these times! Too high a chance of catching something still ...
Not sure there's reason enough currently to say I couldn't do it because I don't want to commute during covid??
Not sure there's reason enough currently to say I couldn't do it because I don't want to commute during covid??
A lot of places don;t pay you while you are on Jury service. Yes you can claim from the courts the £64.95 per day but that can be a lot less than you earn.
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