1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Just any 3600MHz memory?

Discussion in 'Memory' started by Cadder, 25 Nov 2020.

  1. Cadder

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 25 Nov 2020

    Posts: 1,201

    Hi all,

    For my build I need at least 24GB to run my CAD programs. I think 32GB is safe for a few future releases.
    I will have a 3600(possibly X or XT) CPU on an MSI X570 Tomahawk Mobo. I think the GPU will be 5700XT for now.
    The idea is to use these stopgap CPU/GPU until I can get what I want, a 5600XT and RTX 3070.

    So for memory, I understand 3600MHz would be great for the new Ryzen CPUs. What I don't know though, is which brands to stick to, which to avoid, and which variants of certain brands are winners and which are losers. I also don't have a clue what CL16 or 18.

    Really I don't know much beyond the "32GB" aspect so any pointers would be appreciated. If you have a similar system and your RAM is amazing please say so. If you are a memory geek or can advise good value for money options then I am looking forward to your tips.
     
  2. Cyber-Mav

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,326

    Location: Midlands

    I think official ram support is 3200 on that cpu as per amd website. Anything higher is overclocking and if used for a work pc id not overclock ram without some serious testing. E.g 72 hour memtest run followed by 48 hour prime blend and 24 hour linpak run.
    But each to their own.
     
  3. keenan

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 22 Sep 2009

    Posts: 1,025

    Now-a-days it's all about the "Die" used on the actual ram stick.

    What you are ideally aiming for is 3600Mhz Cl16. This is achieved by enabling the XMP profile in your motherboards bios.

    See it as 3600Mhz being the bandwidth and Cl16 the latency. Good memory have higher bandwidth and lower latency.

    For instance, a 3600Mhz Cl16 kit is good, but not much better than a 3200Mhz Cl14 kit.

    Now, depending on your budget, you have a few options.

    You can go with the very expensive kits that use Samsung B-Die. These kits can obtain very high bandwidth at low latency.

    Or you can go with Micron E-Die, which is rediculously affordable for what you get.

    Have a look at the Crucial Ballistix kits. They come in a variety of speeds/latencies as well as colours (red, white and black).

    They are also often on offer for sub £100 for 32GB kits.

    The model number is BL2K16G36C16U4B
     
  4. MrPils

    Hitman

    Joined: 29 Jun 2009

    Posts: 549

    This advice is spot on. Unless you want to manually tune your memory all kits are just as badly tuned at XMP/Auto as the next so you really wont see much difference between them. Crucial Ballistix are well built, reliable and cheap.
     
  5. Cadder

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 25 Nov 2020

    Posts: 1,201

    Thank you all for your replies, I am much more informed now.
    I'll wait and see if tomorrow-Monday brings any deals on the BL2K16G36C16U4B cards. I'll also keep an eye on other 32gb 3600MHz kits bearing in mind the information above.
    I take on board the comment about overclocking a work PC. I have no knowledge of testing a computer in the methods @Cyber-Mav mentioned but I'll look into it. I'd like to run as many tests as necessary/recommended when my build is complete so I know it is solid.

    Thanks again, much appreciated
     
  6. Cadder

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 25 Nov 2020

    Posts: 1,201

    The BL2K16G36C16U4B kits are proving almost impossible to get hold of.

    I have found another 32GB kit (2x16gb) for £145. It's Adata, I know nothing about them. The model is - XPG GAMMIX D10 DDR4 which is 3600MHz CL16.

    Alternatively the only other kit at 3600MHz CL16 that I can find is on OCUK
    My basket at Overclockers UK:
    Total: £208.69 (includes shipping: £8.70) ​
    [​IMG]

    Should I settle for 3600MHz CL18 or go for 3200MHz? Any other suggestions?

    My CPU is Ryzen 5800X if that helps.
     
  7. MaXxBoulton

    Suspended

    Joined: 11 Jan 2019

    Posts: 3,214

    Location: bedlam

  8. MaXxBoulton

    Suspended

    Joined: 11 Jan 2019

    Posts: 3,214

    Location: bedlam

    it would would still crash when you open chrome...

    Prime is dead now. put silly unreal load on components and is known to kill things.. i've had systems 24hr stable and crash when i open chrome.
    Just last nite i was talking about ram overclocking, i have been using memtest and all was 18hr good ;), i was advised to use memtest5 and it found errors within 30 seconds
    Overclockers have sold pre overclocked systems that have been long duration linpak stable and they have been RMD'ed on day of delivery because there unstable.


    with your testing all you have done is load a system up for 144 hours and not tested it in any way, unless all you do is run prime all day?
    you need to test a system with a load based on the use of the system.
     
  9. Cyber-Mav

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,326

    Location: Midlands

    Your testing is wrong if chrome is crashing your system and not linpack. My testing has shown linpack pulls the highest power from the wall for any cpu based test that can be done. If your crashing with just chrome then you got a very dodgey system and thats usually ram related. Linpack work best with max ram allocation. Iv seen it be useless when people ran it with 4gb assigned
    Also whats memtest5? Is that memtest86+?
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2020
  10. Cyber-Mav

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,326

    Location: Midlands

    prime i agree is not an actual cpu tester, digging around for my old screenshots and found them here:

    over 73 hours prime stable no issues
    [​IMG]

    same setup failed in under 1 hour and 15 mins of linpack. and thats with 3 gig ram allocation.
    [​IMG]

    linpack with large ram allocation finds errors much faster since more ram means problem size is bigger so computations last for longer between iterations.
    again these are not ram testers and cpu only. dedicated memory testing is to be done before i even boot the os.
     
  11. MaXxBoulton

    Suspended

    Joined: 11 Jan 2019

    Posts: 3,214

    Location: bedlam

    you didnt read my post did you..
    i'm not saying your system wasn't 72hr prime stable(mmm..). what i'm saying is many people do massive prime tests to see if there sysme is stable and after all that they open a program and boom... BSOD.
    Prime is for testing dinosaurs not newer hardware.

    EDIT: i see your was testing an i5 750. TBF that a dinosaur. but to recommend a 72hr test now days is madness
     
  12. Cyber-Mav

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,326

    Location: Midlands

    hahah yea my old nahelem platform, lasted me 10 years, still going strong but fancied a change. also some games not working due to lack of cpu instruction sets think avx.
    yes these days a prime blend is ok for some imc testing but linpack and cinebench loops do well even winrar overnight run is handy.
    im sure i got a screenshot somewhere of a 150+ hour linpack test (left it running while i went on holiday) on my old xeon.

    cant believe how easy it is on ryzen. its just a multiplier increase. no faffing about with fsb or base clocks and worrying about memory and pci dividers its bliss. should have gone multiplier unlocked years ago.
     
  13. Cyber-Mav

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,326

    Location: Midlands

    also i did that prime vs linpack test back in the day to prove to people that prime is no where near as good a stability tester as people think it is.
     
  14. MrPils

    Hitman

    Joined: 29 Jun 2009

    Posts: 549

    I think he means Testmem5 - click for instructions. Extreme Anta777 preset is the hardest to pass, it hammers cache, ram and puts some cpu load on too. In my experience if its stable for an hour or two of that its solid. I'd recommend a fan over your ram while running this stress app, the temperatures it generates are way higher than any you would normally face, its a true worst case scenario test.
     
  15. MaXxBoulton

    Suspended

    Joined: 11 Jan 2019

    Posts: 3,214

    Location: bedlam

    yer that's the one, its really speeds up the testing prosses, made more progress in 1 day with Testmem5 that i did is a week with memtest86+

    got my VERY budget Edie 18, 22, 22, 22, 42 kit down to 16, 19, 10, 14, 30

    the tCRD will not be below 19, this is common with E-die Testmem5 shows error within seconds if i drop it to 18, memtest86+ gave me a 15hr clear run.
     
  16. Cyber-Mav

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,326

    Location: Midlands

    managed to download that will let it run for a few days and see if it picks up any errors. since my ram is running below its rated frequency i doubt its gonna find any errors unless they are with the cpu's memory controller.
     
  17. MrPils

    Hitman

    Joined: 29 Jun 2009

    Posts: 549

    Yeah TM5 is my preferred tool for testing a memory overclock. You still need to validate with some 3D testing and a Realbench run afterwards, but so far for me it finds all the things that other apps can miss and quickly too.

    Don't run it for days, 4 hours is usually more than sufficient. I like to give it at least 4 completed loops before calling a final setting stable, though I tend to just run it for 20 minutes at a time while im still tweaking things downwards.
     
  18. Cadder

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 25 Nov 2020

    Posts: 1,201

    I am going to have to find out which tests I should run when I finally build my machine. I'll not be fidgeting too much as it's a work PC but it would be reassuring to see it pass some tests.
     
  19. Blackjack Davy

    Soldato

    Joined: 16 Aug 2009

    Posts: 5,789

    Back in the day Prime was for testing efficiency of cpu coolers not ram stability wasn't it, what furmark was to gpu's if it could stand up to an hour of that without bursting into flames it was considered a pass....
     
  20. MaXxBoulton

    Suspended

    Joined: 11 Jan 2019

    Posts: 3,214

    Location: bedlam

    Tbf yes and no..
    It did make a load of heat, but on oder hardware like q6600 and i5 750 sort of stuff it was OK at picking up faults.