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Just because new shiny hits doesn't mean we all have to upgrade

You keep repeating it and who's saying old=crap?

Sorry must've missed info that dx12 games are coming out shortly.

Yes,because people only buy platforms to last one to two years, and Intel themselves have gone on about how DX12 reduces single thread bottlenecks and promotes better multi-threading.

That is from the horses mouth.

Both Nvidia and AMD are pretty much saying the same with both DX12 and Vulkan.

But if more cores are bad,and single thread performance is the only important aspect,then everyone should just get a G3258 and overclock it to 5GHZ.

Should last 5 years or so nicely.

The more cores argument might not have held as much argument a few years but two new APIs are being released relatively soon which are going to change things massively,and if I was spending £250+ on a CPU I would want longetivity.

But each to their own and its your money after all.

I think the test was welcome to the jungle. Been a while since I played it so can't remember which part that is.

I hope this dx12 takes off sooner rather than later. I'm surprised more games aren't developed to take advantage of modern processing power. I'm old enough to remember when civilisation needed a decent processor to process all its units etc. It does seem that rts and strategy in general isn't popular anymore.

It wouldn't have been,since other sites like Pcgameshardware(who are just retentive about what methiods they use for tests) show the opposite. Plus having played the game in both SP and MP it really does love more threads(even on the Xeon E3 I have now).

Some sections can be more ST limited like the sequence TR uses,but not much is happening in it,so its not a fair test but is a reproducable one.

The thing is at least the Core i5 if had for under £190 is £100 cheaper than a Core i7 5820K plus a cheaper motherboard.

But with the Core i7 6700K there is no CPU price difference and since they both use DDR4,the DDR3 price advantage that the Haswell Core i7 CPUs had is not there.

Also,since the Core i7 5820K uses solder,no need to delid to get better temperatures too.
 
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If you are looking at it from a question of cost, Asus are saying that DDR3 1.5 or 1.65 V will work in Z170 boards, that's something at least to factor in surely? I bet a fair number of folk out there have DDR3 they can now reuse.
Something else to consider into the whole debate anyway, although maybe not all the boards will work this way.

http://www.eteknix.com/asus-confirms-ddr3-1-5-1-65v-works-skylake/
 
I ran a g3258 at 4. 5 ghz ... What an amazing cpu for 50 quid

But game play was stuttery ... Smooth for a bit then stuttery..

More cores are where it's at ... I then got a 4960k and it improved massively . Was smooth as butter then I got a 4790k and then I just got more more FPS :p
 
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Yes,because people only buy platforms to last one to two years, and you obviously know more than Intel themselves when they have gone on about how DX12 reduces single thread bottlenecks and promotes better multi-threading.

And where did I say this? You're just making up things that were never said lol

DX12 games might be released next year or in few years time, who knows? you?
 
But why buy skylake ?

It gets even better. From the other thread:

Isn't potentially the biggest issue with skylake the fact that it only has 20 pcie lanes 16 for GPU and 4 are used for the DMI 3.0 to the chipset which all the other controllers are connected to.
So even though the chipset has 20 pcie lanes itself, communication between the chipset and cpu is limited to 4 which if you were using an NVMe SSD you could almost be saturating that link never mind anything else that is connected.

So just for a marginal improvement in ST performance over Haswell,and the issues with the TIM(as opposed to the solder the Core i7 5820K),a 50% increase in cores and far more bandwith for dual card setups is considered irrelevant.

:D

And where did I say this? You're just making up things that were never said lol

DX12 games might be released next year or in few years time, who knows? you?

I edited my previous post - read it again.
 
I never would have thought that cpus would be so divisive! I thought there would be a clear winner. But this is the pro of PC gaming - the choice! I am still no nearer to making my mind up about it all!
 
I never would have thought that cpus would be so divisive! I thought there would be a clear winner. But this is the pro of PC gaming - the choice! I am still no nearer to making my mind up about it all!

Its quite simple,once the Core i5 6600K has dipped under £200 again,it makes more sense to probably spend the extra £100 or so on the graphics card unless you are not GPU budget limited.

If you have more money,the Core i7 5820K makes more sense than a Core i7 6700K. The chipset has more PCI-E lanes,it does not use TIM(but soldier),and you have the advantage of more cores and threads,which will be of use with the future DX12 and Vulkan games on the horizon.

Plus if you really don't want more threads,for some reason,then it makes the Core i7 6700K look a very poor buy against a Core i5 6600K.
 
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But why buy skylake ?

I'm not saying to buy it, I personally wouldn't. I'm just putting some facts on the table that some might miss that's all. Maybe some like the looks of a particular board, I think the Titanium one looks amazing for starters. Trust me for some people its form not function.
Its always better to have all the facts though, I'm sure you'll agree? Then those in doubt or are not totally clued up can make an informed decision.
 
Yes,because people only buy platforms to last one to two years, and Intel themselves have gone on about how DX12 reduces single thread bottlenecks and promotes better multi-threading.

That is from the horses mouth.

Both Nvidia and AMD are pretty much saying the same with both DX12 and Vulkan.

But if more cores are bad,and single thread performance is the only important aspect,then everyone should just get a G3258 and overclock it to 5GHZ.

Should last 5 years or so nicely.

The more cores argument might not have held as much argument a few years but two new APIs are being released relatively soon which are going to change things massively,and if I was spending £250+ on a CPU I would want longetivity.

But each to their own and its your money after all.



It wouldn't have been,since other sites like Pcgameshardware(who are just retentive about what methiods they use for tests) show the opposite. Plus having played the game in both SP and MP it really does love more threads(even on the Xeon E3 I have now).

Some sections can be more ST limited like the sequence TR uses,but not much is happening in it,so its not a fair test but is a reproducable one.

The thing is at least the Core i5 if had for under £190 is £100 cheaper than a Core i7 5820K plus a cheaper motherboard.

But with the Core i7 6700K there is no CPU price difference and since they both use DDR4,the DDR3 price advantage that the Haswell Core i7 CPUs had is not there.

Also,since the Core i7 5820K uses solder,no need to delid to get better temperatures too.

OK I see what you are getting at. I still doubt that for the average person there would be much difference between 4 and 6 cores.

This thread has been a bit of an eye opener tbh. I bought a 5820k system before the skylake launch and it will arrive on saturday. My old x58 stuff broke and I needed a replacement and I knew the place I was getting it from would take a while to build etc so I just went with the obvious replacement. I don't just use it for gaming though so I kinda knew skylake wasn't likely to give me the improvement I was looking for.

When I bought my x58 stuff 5 years ago I remember similar conversations on the web about how 4 cores and hyperthreading would be relevant in the future. If I'm honest the future didn't really arrive until 2013 and even then very few games actually used my computers capabilities. Even today with a 980 in it I'm GPU bottlenecked in virtually every game. Thats why I question whether X99 for someone who only games is worthwhile. I probably could have bought an i5 system for half what I spent on my x58 and upgraded halfway through, performance wouldn't have been greatly different cpu wise - faster but not amazingly so. What I would have benefitted from is being able to upgrade io with faster hard discs and better ports, obviously a new warranty and better looking hardware.

I still think for the ones that just game and probably if I'm sensible for me and most hobby computer users i5 is probably the sweet spot for value. I don't enjoy building computers so I buy not wanting to upgrade anything but gpu, and if needs must storage. For those that do if you replace very 2-3 years with latest i5 you get the ability to run all this new stuff, tinker with your setup and change the look and stay in warranty for most components. If the mutilcore future ever happens then presumably intel will eventually release multicore mainstream chips and you get to move to that.

Anyway my entrance into the thread was when someone said skylake was pointless. I don't think it is, its obviously better than z97 and in a few weeks prices will have come down and it'll be competitive. X99 works for some but if you a gamer whose rig is dead then you should probably just buy a skylake i5 rig.
 
I may later decide to I suppose. Is the 6600K viable? Eurogamer gave it a great review...

You need to make that decision if you are going to do so!

Spending extra on OC abilities which you might not use,could be better spent on a faster graphics cards.

OK I see what you are getting at. I still doubt that for the average person there would be much difference between 4 and 6 cores.

This thread has been a bit of an eye opener tbh. I bought a 5820k system before the skylake launch and it will arrive on saturday. My old x58 stuff broke and I needed a replacement and I knew the place I was getting it from would take a while to build etc so I just went with the obvious replacement. I don't just use it for gaming though so I kinda knew skylake wasn't likely to give me the improvement I was looking for.

When I bought my x58 stuff 5 years ago I remember similar conversations on the web about how 4 cores and hyperthreading would be relevant in the future. If I'm honest the future didn't really arrive until 2013 and even then very few games actually used my computers capabilities. Even today with a 980 in it I'm GPU bottlenecked in virtually every game. Thats why I question whether X99 for someone who only games is worthwhile. I probably could have bought an i5 system for half what I spent on my x58 and upgraded halfway through, performance wouldn't have been greatly different cpu wise - faster but not amazingly so. What I would have benefitted from is being able to upgrade io with faster hard discs and better ports, obviously a new warranty and better looking hardware.

I still think for the ones that just game and probably if I'm sensible for me and most hobby computer users i5 is probably the sweet spot for value. I don't enjoy building computers so I buy not wanting to upgrade anything but gpu, and if needs must storage. For those that do if you replace very 2-3 years with latest i5 you get the ability to run all this new stuff, tinker with your setup and change the look and stay in warranty for most components. If the mutilcore future ever happens then presumably intel will eventually release multicore mainstream chips and you get to move to that.

Anyway my entrance into the thread was when someone said skylake was pointless. I don't think it is, its obviously better than z97 and in a few weeks prices will have come down and it'll be competitive. X99 works for some but if you a gamer whose rig is dead then you should probably just buy a skylake i5 rig.

Yeah,the problem is not people comparing a Core i5 6600K against a Core i7 5820K,but saying its better to buy a Core i7 6700K over the Core i7 5820K.

The problem is that there is hardly a price difference between the Core i7 6700K for the CPU alone,and even the motherboards are not massively different,since a lower end X99 motherboard is still going to have better build than a very cheap Z170,and ultimately its probably not more than £40 to £60 difference overall if you shop around for both setups.

Plus add the fact that the X99 setup still has more useable PCI-E lanes for graphics,its not really painting the Core i7 6700K as great value. Plus I can see the X99 setup holding its value better anyway,as it would appeal not only to highend gamers but also to people using it for productivity based purposes.

I could even understand the £100 saving for a sub £200 Core i5 6600K against a Core i7 6700K or a Core i7 5820K as the difference can be invested into a better card,but not the Core i7 6700K.
 
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You need to make that decision if you are going to do so!

Spending extra on OC abilities which you might not use,could be better spent on a faster graphics cards.



Yeah,the problem is not people comparing a Core i5 6600K against a Core i7 5820K,but saying its better to buy a Core i7 6700K over the Core i7 5820K.

The problem is that there is hardly a price difference between the Core i7 6700K for the CPU alone,and even the motherboards are not massively different,since a lower end X99 motherboard is still going to have better build than a very cheap Z170,and ultimately its probably not more than £40 to £60 difference overall if you shop around for both setups.

Plus add the fact that the X99 setup still has more useable PCI-E lanes for graphics,its not really painting the Core i7 6700K as great value. Plus I can see the X99 setup holding its value better anyway,as it would appeal not only to highend gamers but also to people using it for productivity based purposes.

I could even understand the £100 saving for a sub £200 Core i5 6600K against a Core i7 6700K or a Core i7 5820K as the difference can be invested into a better card,but not the Core i7 6700K.

I dunno you can get an atx skylake motherboard for less than £100 with 6 sata 6 a couple of m2 slots some usb 3.1 one of em type c. An x99 version of the same would cost a lot more, the cheapest it £170 and doesn't get all that. I know x99 comes with yet more ports but I'll wager not many gamers are likely to use them. Also we nowhere near saturating the x8 graphics bandwidth so thats not likely to be relevant either. Also hardly any users will use sli.

If the processor is overkill anyway then why spend yet more to get lesser functionality?
 
You need to make that decision if you are going to do so!

Spending extra on OC abilities which you might not use,could be better spent on a faster graphics cards.



Yeah,the problem is not people comparing a Core i5 6600K against a Core i7 5820K,but saying its better to buy a Core i7 6700K over the Core i7 5820K.

The problem is that there is hardly a price difference between the Core i7 6700K for the CPU alone,and even the motherboards are not massively different,since a lower end X99 motherboard is still going to have better build than a very cheap Z170,and ultimately its probably not more than £40 to £60 difference overall if you shop around for both setups.

I could even understand the £100 saving for a sub £200 Core i5 6600K against a Core i7 6700K or a Core i7 5820K as the difference can be invested into a better card.

Game production doesn't take 1 or 2 years , it's often 3-4 or longer (unless you play assassins creed or fifa). So basically all games that were started 2 years ago are suddenly not gonna show up with dx12 support. Based on Witcher 3 creators interview it takes resources they simply didn't have. So they had to choose and decided not to deal with dx12 (at least before the release). I'd assume it will be similar, as nobody wants to stretch their budget on something new released in the middle of production. So dx12 games in my opinion are not gonna show up quickly. But who knows, if CDPred prepares another dx12 patch maybe all will go same route (still.. everyone will have completed the game by this time and won't care other than for benchmarks). No real life usage.

Doubt than most ppl delid their DC processors and they still achieve 4.8 on air which is still faster if you consider more cores and current games that benefit from more cores. As most 5820k run at 4.2-4.3 on air, because they are hotter even with your beloved solder.

The argument of x99 owners/fans is constantly about the future which they don't know. At current state skylake setup is cheaper even with i7 (motherboard cost and processor itself bought somewhere else) and definitely not slower in modern games. You can save the rest for better GPU than spend on x99
 
I dunno you can get an atx skylake motherboard for less than £100 with 6 sata 6 a couple of m2 slots some usb 3.1 one of em type c. An x99 version of the same would cost a lot more, the cheapest it £170 and doesn't get all that. I know x99 comes with yet more ports but I'll wager not many gamers are likely to use them. Also we nowhere near saturating the x8 graphics bandwidth so thats not likely to be relevant either. Also hardly any users will use sli.

If the processor is overkill anyway then why spend yet more to get lesser functionality?

But those sub £100 are not as well built,so ultimately like for like its closer to £50 to £60. Plus you also have the weird chipset limitation with realistically only 20 PCI-E 3.0 lanes on the CPU being useable for graphics and 28 for the Core i7 5820K.

If someone is going to spend £300 on a CPU for gaming,they probably going to want to go dual card at some point or have an option.

Plus are you going to be sure that in 4 years time,the Z170 is going to have enough bandwidth - I doubt it??

The Core i7 6700K is £300 and probably makes it the worst value for money Intel CPU under £400 in years. People should stop making excuses for such a poor value for money CPU,since if they can sell £300 4C/8T CPUs in quantity for desktop,soon expect £400 ones coming out in the next few years.

Game production doesn't take 1 or 2 years , it's often 3-4 or longer (unless you play assassins creed or fifa). So basically all games that were started 2 years ago are suddenly not gonna show up with dx12 support. Based on Witcher 3 creators interview it takes resources they simply didn't have. So they had to choose and decided not to deal with dx12 (at least before the release). I'd assume it will be similar, as nobody wants to stretch their budget on something new released in the middle of production. So dx12 games in my opinion are not gonna show up quickly. But who knows, if CDPred prepares another dx12 patch maybe all will go same route (still.. everyone will have completed the game by this time and won't care other than for benchmarks). No real life usage.

Doubt than most ppl delid their DC processors and they still achieve 4.8 on air which is still faster if you consider more cores and current games that benefit from more cores. As most 5820k run at 4.2-4.3 on air, because they are hotter even with your beloved solder.

The argument of x99 owners/fans is constantly about the future which they don't know. At current state skylake setup is cheaper even with i7 (motherboard cost and processor itself bought somewhere else) and definitely not slower in modern games. You can save the rest for better GPU than spend on x99

Yes,but whats funnier is that you are trying to make a £100 tax for HT reasonable. I will never own a X99 CPU,since I won't spend over £200 on a CPU myself,but it seems you are really wanting to make the Core i7 6700K look fantastic value when the difference in price at least using similar quality parts is less than £100.

Plus the OC headroom is not even well understood now,until a few months down the line until we get a larger sample base. Even if we take your numbers are face value - what is it another 15% maybe 20% in the best case scenario for ST performance,and in reality its probably going to be less,rather than all the grandious claims being made.

I remember certain people bigging up Skylake and since it is not all what its claimed to be,its almost like people are trying to fluff it up in some amazing way.

In fact most retailers are listing the Core i7 6700K and Core i7 5820K at the same price,with the Core i7 5820K being cheaper at a few,so at this point we will soon be seeing £400 4C/8T CPUs at this rate.

The Core i7 6700K is totally irrelevant with the Core i5 6600K under £200 and the Core i7 5820K.

The worst thing is that I thought the Core i7 5775C was overpriced,but the Core i7 6700K.

FFS,the Core i7 5775C even beats the Core i7 6700K in some games,has a massive IGP and is a drop in CPU for existing socket 1050 motherboards.

It also costs WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more to make than a Core i7 6700K and is the same price. Just like with the Core i7 5820K.

The Core i7 6700K is just an Intel profit margin gaining exercise.

It makes me wonder at times why it is being bigged up by some.
 
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I already have a 980 ti so can't invest much more in my gpu! :)

All I can say is that more and more games I have are starting to use more cores and threads, making games smoother.

Dying Light, Battlefield 4, Project Cars, GTAV, Witcher 3 make nice use of multiple cores/threads, Dying Light in particular.

It's a trend I can only see continuing.

I went from an (admittedly old) Q6600 quad to a Xeon hexcore, and I wouldn't want to go back to a quad, even a 4690K or 6600K.
 
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