Just wanted to say thanks

I think Raymond uses a private forum now, tbh I haven't seen any new work from him in a while in the public ones, unless maybe he's posted it over at potn...
 
Yeah there are a lot of people with technical knowledge. It just makes me sad that I don't see the inspirational photos you used to. Well, not as often.

To add a bit of balance, I've seen some truly dreadful photographers declare themselves 'professional' and stop posting on various forums. A lot of the pros that did stay here often only posted their photos that weren't for sale.

It just seems like a silly rule. Blatant advertising I can understand being wrong, but a photo with a subtle watermark I'd leave. I'm not going to tell admins and mods what to do, as I've done and do and have in the past been mod/admin in other forums, game servers, etc and it's not a fun job as you rarely get any thanks as most don't know what goes on in private sections. However I do think things could be loosened to encourage some of the better photos, other than the rubbish I occasionally post :D
 
ElDude said:
Yeah there are a lot of people with technical knowledge. It just makes me sad that I don't see the inspirational photos you used to. Well, not as often.

To add a bit of balance, I've seen some truly dreadful photographers declare themselves 'professional' and stop posting on various forums. A lot of the pros that did stay here often only posted their photos that weren't for sale.

It just seems like a silly rule. Blatant advertising I can understand being wrong, but a photo with a subtle watermark I'd leave.
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There are a good few photographers whose posts I miss and don't know where they went, however, they had long stopped posting photos before this more recent drama. When I say that I think the forum's been better since then I'm talking about the attitude of people although I don't think it will be devoid of good work for as long as some think.

I thought the advertising was blatant. Did you notice that whenever the thread went to page 2 it would soon miraculously return with an "update" despite the fact that the work was not brand new. There was no reason it couldn't have been posted at once. Doing so wouldn't have made it a such a feature of the section though. Pricing talk and work enquiries were taking place within the thread. This is before we even go into direct links to the business website and watermarks etc. If the watermarks were just there to protect work then it wouldn't really matter if they took a different format to the business name. If every person who makes money at photography here created a similar thread and strategically bumped it then the board would soon look exactly like a classified section of people advertising their services. It was about far more than watermarks.

Andy90 said:
Erm, the rules of the Forum prohibit anyone from advertising their business. Certain individuals did link their signatures to their websites where they were advertising their photographic services for hire.

If the watermarks linked to a blog or a website which has no commercial interests advertised within it, then that would stick to the rules. A good example of this is Tugs website, it is a blog and a showcase to his excellent photographs.

Some people didn't stick to the rules.

Admittedly it had been going on for some years without Mods interfering, perhaps they should have done so sooner, but that is an issue for the owner of the board at the time and the moderators.

The persons involved were not permanently banned and COULD if they wished have altered links / watermarks accordingly to point to a non commercial area of their site. They COULD have stayed if they wished. However they had a free choice and chose to do what they did. I'm not criticising them for it and indeed agree with you, they are talented photographers, but hey lets not make them out to be martyrs. They didn't play by the rules and were called out. If they made an exception for one or two individuals then they would have to make an exception for everyone and not just within the Photographic section. If advertising your services as a Wedding Photographer at £1500+ per event is ok then why not allow people to advertise their home built computers or website development on these forums? It would soon become a free for all and clearly not acceptable to the providers of the forums.

Now back to the OP -you're welcome.
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Couldn't agree more. I can't understand why more people don't see the issue for what it was.
 
The discussing pricing thing I can understand as there are other more professional sites and forums with that sort of info.

I'll never be convinced that pro photographers posting subtle images should be banned though. Advertising services yeah okay, as you have to have a line somewhere as the board would be flooded with advertising spam.

Most people are hobbyists and won't reach the standard of some, but others are genuinely interested in how to reach that level, and if there's a blanket rule in place that discouraged the pro from posting, then people will move to other boards.

It seems like the board is only for beginners and casual photographers now, which is a shame.
 
There's nothing subtle about a watermark! :D

I think it's a shame that people didn't keep contributing to the forum with the smallest of changes to the watermark. They're missed that's for sure, but they're hitting back at feeling persecuted by leaving the forum which leaves the rest of us without the benefit of their knowledge and work. Such a shame.

I still don't offer any photography services, but as I have now shot a wedding as a second shooter and have some more lined up as a second and on my own. I have removed the link to my (sorely out of date) website in my sig in order to avoid any potential conflict. Advertising commercially was overlooked in this forum, I think the manner it which is was eventually enforced was heavy handed but it's all a bit late for that now :(

Others don't post as often (if at all) due to work, so RL impacts the forum as well.
 
I've seen Raymond a couple of times on TalkPhotography but that feels empty to me as it just feels like post a pic, get 5 people telling you it's good regardless of standard, rinse and repeat. I'm still on there tbh but I might move over to POTN or similar as these forums haven't quite been doing much for me lately. I don't mind too much personally about the watermarks thing but I can see it's hurt the forums by scaring off a fair few great photograpers. These forums always used to be a nice place where most people almost knew each other, nowadays it feels a lot more foreign, maybe it's just me.

On another aside, what happened to Mr Jones?
 
The ironic thing is at the end of last year I was looking into getting a new watermark, something simple, like just a logo design with my initial RL on it. It is to go with my new site that is in the pipeline. I planned and still plan to go to 99 Design to do it and then this kicked off. Then I had a wedding, went to Hong Kong, shot a musical, then 3 more weddings, on top of that my mum broke her ankle, plus a full time job, I really never got around to it.

Even though the new watermark, whatever it might be, that might comply with the rules (as a Don have said in GD), who knows if it still is next week? I thought mine was! (yet I still see the same rule broken these days with no consequence)

Like I said before, watermarks are part and parcel of Internet image posting, they are even on my site (15% opacity, centre), its a flash site (you can't right click), it's not always about advertising. If its about advertising then I would just continue posting, as it doesn't matter as I use my real name here so if people want to find me they will just google me.

I want to protect my work.
 
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Ksanti said:
I've seen Raymond a couple of times on TalkPhotography but that feels empty to me as it just feels like post a pic, get 5 people telling you it's good regardless of standard, rinse and repeat. I'm still on there tbh but I might move over to POTN or similar as these forums haven't quite been doing much for me lately. I don't mind too much personally about the watermarks thing but I can see it's hurt the forums by scaring off a fair few great photograpers. These forums always used to be a nice place where most people almost knew each other, nowadays it feels a lot more foreign, maybe it's just me.

On another aside, what happened to Mr Jones?
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The standard of TP isn't as high as other places I frequent - DWF and POTN. I see your point, it can be very marmite. The person I go to to get real feed back is a fellow wedding tog, he is not on here, but posts on TP now and again, he was in IT and began to do it full time this year. I trust hm because he doesn't hold back about the weakness in my work and his points has always been valid. Very shrewed on business too.
 
An Exception said:
^^^
His is one of the blogs I often visit, his processing style isn't for me, but his work is great.
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Guy changed his style about 2 seasons ago, it used to be neutral, then something happened and he went for the golden look. I think he tries to imitate Jose Villa's style a little bit but to me, guy's stuff can at times make the skin tone looks too much on the yellow side, a feel of someone has pee all over it or that person has liver cancer...

Can't deny guy has a good eye though.
 
I also thought that due to the micro contrast, sometimes the subjects look like they need a good wash, but Jose Villa's processing style does't seem to have this issue.
 
An Exception said:
I also thought that due to the micro contrast, sometimes the subjects look like they need a good wash, but Jose Villa's processing style does't seem to have this issue.
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It may be because Jose Villa shoots film? Who knows.

I know that Guy did Silverpengiun's wedding, from the photos, I thought he is Asian of Indian desent! All because of the "golden" look.
 
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Busy chap :) Sorry to hear about your mum, being laid up in a cast is dead boring!

I reckon a simple no direct marketing water marks, i.e. no website or company names, would suffice? Should be simple enough to follow and enforce?
 
Rojin said:
Busy chap :) Sorry to hear about your mum, being laid up in a cast is dead boring!

I reckon a simple no direct marketing water marks, i.e. no website or company names, would suffice? Should be simple enough to follow and enforce?
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In between that i had a minor car accident (same day my mum broke her ankle)
Did a maternity shoot.
Then a shoot of the baby from that 4 weeks after.
Getting my car fixed.
Doing end of year accounts (January)
Client meetings.
Plus lots of other things.

The forum watermark malarky is really way down the list of my worries.

My mum is fine now, thanksfor asking :) but the cast thing was complicated by the fact that she also went to HK 3 weeks into the cast, so it had to be taken off early for the flights.
 
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