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Kakao Stats and Sub-teams...

Discussion in 'Team OcUK Distributed Computing Projects' started by Joe42, 2 May 2007.

  1. Joe42

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2005

    Posts: 4,171

    Location: Northants

    As long as Linux has primary functions requiring users to use a command line it will be confined to that 0.1% of the userbase who are enthusiasts who are prepared to use a command line.
    Normal users do not and will not use a command line, ever, end of.

    I want to see linux wipe out windows, but it will not do that as long as any of its primary functions require a command line.
    Yes, a command line is useful, but for enthusiasts only. There are hundreds of distros with command lines, all of them in fact. All we need is one without it and it'll take off.

    So the 99.9% of potential linux users should be barred from using it so that 0.1% can do their processing?

    How many people could learn to ride a bike without training wheels? If there were two types of bike, one with training wheels which could be removed later (windows) and one without training wheels (linux), which would be most popular?
    The one with training wheels, because only a tiny minority if people could learn to ride a bike without them.


    What planet is the author of that on?

    They have a fundamental problem. They do not realise that 99.9% of users (ie 'the majority') will never ever use a command line, full stop. They won't learn it you give them a manual, they won't learn it if you give them a half assed gui to try and break them into it. If windows and osx had never existed, pcs wouldn't exist either. The only computers around would be in specialist scientific labs.

    Normal human beings do not use command lines, in the same way that the earth is not flat. Its a simple and fundamental fact, you cannot change it.

    As long as linux requires the use of a command line to operate any of its major functions it will remain confined to the 0.1% of users who are enthusiasts, and as long as the developers think they can force mainstream users to use a command line linux has a very very very bleak future. :(
     
  2. SiriusB

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Dec 2005

    Posts: 14,444

    Location: Manchester

    If you read the whole essay you will realise that linux developers don't WANT to overtake Windows, they don't WANT to make it easy for new people and they are happy with Linux the way it is, and if they are not - they change it for themselves.

    Linux was never intended for the average person and it will be a very long time before it comes close to Windows' ease of use for the non-initiated.

    To be honest it takes very little time to learn what you need to get Ubuntu up and running and once you learn it it stays with you. Take my SMP guide for example, most of the commands are pretty much the same just the context changes [ie what files are being mainpulated and where].

    Like the essay says Linux was originally made by geeks for geeks and they don't get paid so don't expect any of them to care one jot about what people want :D

    If you hate Linux this much, run the WinSMP client! [I will be adding a WinSMP client section to my guide now I have a little experience with it].

    Hope that didn't come off as being angry or hostile, it wasn't :D
     
  3. Mattus

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

    Posts: 10,912

    Location: London

    I would argue that customisability and control, primarily via the command line, is the main virtue of Linux. What's the point relegating the command line to the backwaters in order to attract more people from Windows? Without the command line, you'd end up with something resembling a more secure version of Windows which could do less.
     
  4. SiriusB

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Dec 2005

    Posts: 14,444

    Location: Manchester

    As I have said Linux wasn't and isn't trying to compete with Windows. If you aren't prepared to learn a new way of doing things Linux really isn't for you :)
     
  5. BillytheImpaler

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 2 Aug 2005

    Posts: 8,721

    Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA

    I see what you're saying and it's certainly a valid argument but this bit has some serious flaws. OS X on the desktop didn't exist March 2001. It replaced the classic Mac OS, which lacked a terminal wholesale, as a fully multitasking Unix-like OS. One of its main virtues is that it has a full Bash terminal emulator built right in. In order to accomplish a great many "advanced-user" style changes to the OS you need to open up the terminal and pass a few commands. There's nothing wrong with this, IMO.

    PCs existed for about 5 years before Windows. X Windows, Linux's main GUI system, predates the first version of Linux by 7 years.

    Perhaps we should let get back on topic and we continue our discussion in the Linux or Windows forum. :)
     
  6. Whitestar

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,132

    Location: Folding for OcUK

    I think having sub teams is a brilliant idea.

    It would definatly improve the morale of people who can't match the output of us 'Mental' folk. Also it would create more competition at this end of the table.
    Not that your not good competition Bigstan. It just gets a bit boring when theres only two of us up there. Although Growse is getting close ppd wise.

    We should have maybe two or three pre decided team names and then anyone who doesnt want to be in one of those can make there own one.

    I can understand what your saying Joe about it being a mess of teams, but I think if we try to force people to just those teams, it could backfire and put a downer on a good idea.
     
  7. Stan_Lite

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 27 Apr 2004

    Posts: 107,331

    Location: In bed with your sister

    I agree with you entirely. Whilst our little tussle at the top with Growse always nipping at our heels is reasonably satisfying, it would be nice to have more competition at the top end. If no single user has access to the hardware to do it, then subteams is definitely the way to go.

    I think it should be left up to individuals to form teams amongst themselves rather than having any sort of set format for teams.

    I have no problem with being knocked off the top spot - either by WhiteLigerstarzero, Growse (or even Sculptor, if he gets himself back into full production) or by a subteam. At the end of the day, if it helps keep people interested in the project then it's got to be good for the team and the science.

    Stan :)
     
  8. Whitestar

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,132

    Location: Folding for OcUK

    We could make a challenge out of it.

    'Can your team knock the big boys off the top spots!' sort of thing.
     
  9. shadowscotland

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 31 May 2006

    Posts: 7,559

    Location: West London

    althought the hijak was an intresting diversion, The excerlent idea of sub teams 'challenging' the 'mentals' is even better. But would it lead to the mentals teaming up too....?

    all hail the Quadmentals :D
     
  10. SiriusB

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Dec 2005

    Posts: 14,444

    Location: Manchester

    I wonder if I am now classed as a mental? I know the stats don't show it yet but my PPD on the last 5 WUs has been over 2K. 2.5K in the case of the 1760 pointers :D

    I am also half-tempted to upgrade my brother's PC to a C2D :p
     
  11. Whitestar

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,132

    Location: Folding for OcUK

    Nope that wouldn't be fair.
     
  12. shadowscotland

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 31 May 2006

    Posts: 7,559

    Location: West London

    I have to agree ;) but SB question of what make a 'mental' is so tempting to answer/propose a definition....

    ...but really must get back to work. :rolleyes:
     
  13. rich99million

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 26 Dec 2002

    Posts: 9,348

    Location: Derbyshire

    yep I'd say you qualify - brothers are meant for fighting with and embarrassing in general :D
     
  14. verbal

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 17 May 2006

    Posts: 1,189

    Location: Manchester, UK

    This is how I feel as well. I was thinking a while back of proposing a sub-team for anyone who is folding with one single core machine. It will be interesting to see what ideas people come up with for teams. I wouldn't be surprised if there is stuff like a London sub-team etc..