KERS and moveable rear wings in F1 2011

Duke

Duke

Duke

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84543

Report on Autosport above about the return of KERS next season. It will have the same power output as before, which I think should be increased, but the minimum car weight is likely to increase which will help.

Ferrari, Williams and Renault have already confirmed that they will run KERS next year, with other outfits now evaluating it.

Mercedes GP team principal Ross Brawn reckoned all teams will have had to make their minds up in the next month about what their plans would be.
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How will the new teams cope with it?


Also talk of new movable rear wings:

Brawn also believes that KERS would provide an extra benefit beyond the boost that is set to come from the introduction of moveable rear wings - which alone are set to increase straight-line speeds by 15km/h.

"It can be an accumulative benefit," he said. "If you use the wing and KERS, then you will get the benefit of both. There is no reason why the wing will negate KERS - because you don't only use KERS to improve straight-line speed, you can also use it to improve downforce."
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Thoughts?
 
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If minimum weight increases surely that decreases the effect of KERS

or to be more exact - I guess it charges in less time (as KE is larger due to heavier mass being stopped) but the "boost" is of less effect for the same reason

my physics isnt great but this is what I would expect
 
from what I have heard about the moveable rear wings, it could be, rather nifty, and when employed correctly, will allow for more overtaking (something about the car behind being allowed to use it, but the car infront not)
 
Movable rear wing sounds retarded. It's going to lead to NASCAR style races where everyone waits before pouncing for the overtake on the last lap when it's too late for their rival to fight back. Obviously it won't be exactly like NASCAR but it will lead to those sort of situations arising - which IMO are totally artificial and have no place in F1.
 
Rubbish ideas.
Pitpass had a similar article

Their article talks about how things like reverse grids and such are too artificial yet allowing the cars behind to adjust wings but the car in front can't apparantly isn't?
Catchup is rubbish enough in games, don't want to see it in the Formula 1 too!

Whats wrong with a serious downforce nerf and stickier tyres to allow the car behind to slipstream well, follow closely and still retain a comparable level of cornering speeds to current cars? It's cheaper, less to go wrong and will be more exciting yet only us armchair pundits seem to realise this?

Why is it that the FIA seems only able to think of poor ideas to *fix* racing :/
 
haven't watched that much F1 this season due to my location , but reading the reports on it this season its been so far anyway, a awesome season? Why do they feel the need to fiddle with the rules every year ?

If anyone has a good answer to this I'd be interested maybe i'm missing something obvious:)
 
divaboy said:
haven't watched that much F1 this season due to my location , but reading the reports on it this season its been so far anyway, a awesome season? Why do they feel the need to fiddle with the rules every year ?

If anyone has a good answer to this I'd be interested maybe i'm missing something obvious:)
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An attempt to seem like their job is worth keeping maybe?

How do they plan to control leader can't use the wing adjust but follower can in conditions where 3 cars are fighting for position? Only the lead of the 3 can't adjust but the following 2 or only the last can?
 
they should bring back kers, but give them X amount of charge and use it how they with, ie a 2 second strong boost or a 10 second weaker boost.

wing idea sounds stupid, make the diffusers smaller, bigger tyres.
 
divaboy said:
haven't watched that much F1 this season due to my location , but reading the reports on it this season its been so far anyway, a awesome season? Why do they feel the need to fiddle with the rules every year ?

If anyone has a good answer to this I'd be interested maybe i'm missing something obvious:)
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Because if they don't, the teams end up spending ridiculous sums of money on gaining 0.001ms when a change of rules mixes things up a bit and allows a bit more of a level playing field.
 
Sad thing is the adjustable rear wing is just crazy enough to be made official.

Just think... how many times do the TV people talk about the adjustable front wing? Not very much at all. It's been mentioned about once, fleetingly, all year on the BBC.

As long as F1 can still be perceived to TV viewers and spectators as not being "artificial" then they don't care. So they'll just give a memo to all the TV networks to not focus too much on the adjustable rear wing or something.
 
So much for cost cutting. All the money and intelligence behind F1, you would think they would come up with a workable solution - rather than trying these things year on year. Hope it works though.
 
I odn't uderstand why f1 wants movable wings, it goes against everything about non movable/ non changing aero dynamics they have been pushing for a decade.

As said why ban f-duct and have movable rear wing.

As for kers I like the idea, but yet again poor stupid rules. There should be no limits on power/time of power boost. Just a maximum weight or maybe maximum charge and that's it/ Allow teams to develop the tech and use it how ever they want.
Low boost for a long time, high boost for a short time, massive unbalancing of car to recharge quickly, or low unbalancing of car to recharge slow and so on.

It's easy to resolve over taking. Increase mechanical grip, decrease aero down force. It really is as easy as that. Can we also have technology development back in F1. Limit and reduce fuel loads every year or every other year. But allow engine development and any lay out they want along with any kers solution they want.
I'm sick of seeing teams spend 10's of millions to gain an extra 0.050 seconds on some stupid aero change. Lets spend the money teams have on proper development useful to other industries. Fuel efficient engines and kers. Also need a limit of how many teams can use same parts.
 
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AcidHell2 said:
Also need a limit of how many teams can use same parts.
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I agree with everything you said apart from this. What purpose would this serve? The big-boys are always going to want to use thior own/different parts and having other teams share some of the components is a very good cost-saving measure (and gives the big teams more component testing info).

Otherwise the F1 rules are totally moronic. They should just abandon the FIA and let fans vote on rule changes - it certainly couldn't be any worse than flexible rear wings that you can only use if you're following. Thats ****ing retarded!
 
Baboonanza said:
I agree with everything you said apart from this. What purpose would this serve? The big-boys are always going to want to use thior own/different parts and having other teams share some of the components is a very good cost-saving measure (and gives the big teams more component testing info).
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Otherwise it turns into a same car series. Say 9 out of 12 teams use cosworth engines, have the same tyres, have the same kers and aero dynamics are more restrictive than they are currently. Say maximum of 3 teams or even 2, that way you will always have at lest 4 engine manufactures/kers manufactures etc.

If you also re-allow development and have limited and reduced fuel every season, more manufactures/companies would come and develop engines and kers. but you have to remove the stupid anti development rules. Limit fuel not engine power/size/development.



I agree it saves cost, but I don't think the sport needs to save that much and savings can be made elsewhere. Or revenues increased. Such as test days say on Monday after the race say every third race or something. Equipment and personnel are there. Tv rights and extra money from ticket sales. You also have to realise whilst you stifle development comapnies are not willing to get involved, as they have to spend teh cost for no reward other than advertisement. Re-allow development and they get research and products as well as advertisement.
 
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They could maybe introduce weight penalties depending on the number of points a driver has. Say 1kg per point (actually this would be quite a lot by the end of the season with 25 points for a win). This wouldn't affect the racing to much to begin with but mid season the drivers towards the top of the championship would have much heavier cars than the cars towards the bottom.

They really do need to figure out a way of reducing down force substantially so that mechanical grip is more important. Would be good to see the guy's sliding the cars around like they used to do before wings were introduced.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Otherwise it turns into a same car series. Say 9 out of 12 teams use cosworth engines, have the same tyres, have the same kers and aero dynamics are more restrictive than they are currently. Say maximum of 3 teams or even 2, that way you will always have at lest 4 engine manufactures/kers manufactures etc.
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As I said, I agree with you on promoting development but besides tires there isn't (and to my knowledge never has been) a problem with cars using too similar components, particularly engines, so I not sure what you're trying to 'fix'. Also your proposed solution would create all sorts of difficulties, for instance deciding who gets to use what engine, so I think the cure would be worse than the disease.
 
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