KERS and moveable rear wings in F1 2011

[Glaucus]

Also your proposed solution would create all sorts of difficulties, for instance deciding who gets to use what engine, so I think the cure would be worse than the disease.

At the moment there isn't a problem, but if you severely restrict aero, then the engine and kers become the most important aspect and then you don't wont everyone with teh same power plant. Although a lot are running cosworth engines.

What do you mean teh difficulties of who gets what. nothing has to be deided. It's who ever the manufactures want to sale it to. Just a limit on how many teams they can supply.

 

[Duke]

Sounds a bit over complicated to me

[It's] been agreed to ban the ‘F-flap’, or ‘F-duct’, system. But in their place we will have an adjustable rear wing. The flap will be adjustable by the driver.

You can run it however you likes in qualifying which will allow you to get a better lap time using it wherever you can. In the race you can’t use it for the first two laps at all.

But after that if you’re within a second of the car in front then you will be able to deploy it. That will be very interesting. It’s a FOTA initiative to help improve the show and I think it’s very exciting.

Paddy Lowe

 

[Baboonanza]

As I said above, it's ****ing retarded.

They may as well just make a rule that you have to slow down if someone is less than a second behind. It's a joke.

 

[Dutch Guy]

If minimum weight increases surely that decreases the effect of KERS

I guess it means they can add a KERS system and still be the same weight as a team not using it, in other words there is no real disadvantage to having KERS installed.

 

[xen_]

Another article on all this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8756430.stm

While I like that they are trying to improve overtaking I don't think they are going about it the right way, just seems so artificial that the car infront can't use it, I can also see some ambiguity and arguements coming from the drivers infront using it, how are they supposed to judge if they are exactly in the 1 second behind gap? It's also a shame to see F-duct banned, but I'm happy to see KERS back.

 

[Alibaba99]

I guess it means they can add a KERS system and still be the same weight as a team not using it, in other words there is no real disadvantage to having KERS installed.

Last year the basic weight of a KERs equipped car was also the same as those not running it. The main downside of the system was that it limited the ability to shift ballast about the car as the location of the KERs components were essentially fixed by practical constraints.

 

[DBT85]

In the race, you can't use it for the first two laps at all, but after that if you're within a second of the car in front then you will be able to deploy it

I can't help thinking that this is going to get very confusing. If i'm in 2nd and 9/10ths behind 1st i can use my flap to get a speed boost. What if the guy in 3rd is within 9/10ths of me?

How will the stewards decide if someone has used it illegally?

 

[Glaucus]

surly it has to be linked to the ecu, which will know where every car on teh track is.
it's artificial and stupid, why did fota of all people suggest this.

 

[NathanE]

It's a silly thing to do. They're already removing double-diffusers next year anyway which is going to clean up the wake of the cars by like 50%. This "adjustable wing" just seems totally overkill.

They should have put the rule in there but with a clause that means the rule won't be used unless it is agreed after the first 3 races that overtaking is still too difficult.

 

[spp]

The movable rear wing idea just sounds daft :/ As has been said in this thread already, reduce aero downforce and increase mechanical grip. When did it become so difficult to overtake in F1 due to the spoiled airflow from the car in front?

 

[Glaucus]

Mid 1990's when they banned all development, so teams could pretty much only develop aero, which was made even worse with grooved tyres and then ban on engine development.

 

[DBT85]

surly it has to be linked to the ecu, which will know where every car on teh track is.
it's artificial and stupid, why did fota of all people suggest this.

The ECU may know where everyone else is, but only at the split points. in the 20-40 seconds between split points nobody knows exactly what the gap is. If i were to go through a split half a second behind someone, run off the track and come back on, can i use the flaps to get close again since the ECU thinks i'm half a sec away?

As you and others said, its just stupid and complicated.

in addition, will the flaps automatically flip back to high df in corners? or is a car flying off of turn 8 at Turkey because the flap wasn't reset in time part of the new thrill?

 

[Glaucus]

I'm sure it is no long just splits.

I'm sure commentators have said and live timmings have gps feeds in real time of everyones position.

 

[Flibster]

Well, that all sounds about as sensible as nailing your scrotum to the table.

 

[DBT85]

I'm sure it is no long just splits.

I'm sure commentators have said and live timmings have gps feeds in real time of everyones position.

Ah didnt realise that. The question still stands though about what happens if 3 cars are within 9/10s of each other and want to press the button.

 

[sunama]

It's easy to resolve over taking. Increase mechanical grip, decrease aero down force. It really is as easy as that.

I totally agree.

HOWEVER...

If I were a big team, spending huge sums of money, attempting to justify to sponsors that their money will see their name on our cars, who will lead/win GPs (with their name(s) associated with "winning"), I would be hell bent on spending as much as I could to gain an advantage over my rivals. Aerodynamic downforce is where the vast majority of gains will come from.

If you increase mechanical grip and reduce aero downforce, the extra resources available to the big teams will yield smaller gains. You will eventually find teams who have low budgets able to take on the big (spending) teams. THIS CANNOT HAPPEN.

Bear in mind that F1 has a duty to its investors/sponsors. Big spending sponsors expect the cars carrying their names to finish in front. F1 will ensure that this remains the case, which is why the FIA will continue to manipulate the rules to ensure the big (spending) teams stay in front and the low budget teams stay at the back.

Unfortunately for the viewing public, high dependency on aero grip is here to stay.

 

[sunama]

How do they plan to control leader can't use the wing adjust but follower can in conditions where 3 cars are fighting for position? Only the lead of the 3 can't adjust but the following 2 or only the last can?

For this reason alone, movable rear wings are VERY bad idea. It will be great to see this device when a car is following another car closely, but in a dog-fight I can see plenty of drive-through penatlies being issued because a driver used the device at the wrong time, in the heat of battle.

 

[deuse]

This adjustable wing is just silly and a BIG waste of time imho. From the BBC site.

"Lowe said the device would allow a following car to increase its speed by 15km/h (about 9.3mph) and the driver in the car in front would not
be allowed to deploy the device to defend his position."

""He can run it however he likes in qualifying"

""In the race, you can't use it for the first two laps at all, but after that if you're within a second of the car in front then you will be able to deploy it."

Who will be timing this 1 second gap?
I bet you teams will say " he was 1.0000009 of second when he deployed it so we want the place back"

F1 is going around and around in circles and has lost it's way. This season is great so "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT"

 

[dannyjo22]

What a load of old ****. So the car following car deploy it to overtake, when can the car being overtaken then be considered the car behind and deploy it themselves?

What a stupid idea to try to create overtaking. A whole panel of stewards to monitor use of the rear wing.

I will be pleased to see Kers return but only for the teams that already invested heavily in it for the system to be removed for this year. It will give Mclaren and Ferrari a huge boost over red bull next year as they have already put in a lot of the groundwork and there is no longer much testing for red bull to catch up fast with their own system.

 

[sunama]

This season is great so "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT"

The only reason for this is because different contenders have turned up.

Most expected Button to be blown away, but he is right up there with Hamilton.
Hamilton is driving in a way you would expect the best driver in F1 to drive.
Alonso is driving in a way you would expect the best driver in F1 to drive.

The RedBull car advantage, have allowed their 2 drivers to compete against the better drivers.

I contend that it is the high standard of the current crop of drivers which are allowing us to see different teams/drivers win races and not the set of rules.

For example, if next year McLaren and Ferrari turn up with the best car then the WDC can easily be a 2 horse race between Alonso and Hamilton.

As far as overtaking goes, at this point, as a spectator sport, overtaking a car in front, which is not significantly slower, is almost impossible (unless your name is Lewis Hamilton). Ideally, something should be done to improve overtaking.