Kimber cable "how much"
- Thread starter EYEREX
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You all get your knickers in a twist over something you have never experienced. Instead of trotting out the same old arguments why not have the balls to bring your ears and an open mind to a Hi-Fi open day. I'll lay on a range of affordable Hi-Fi gear to see if you can tell the difference between better components. Then we will listen to what happens when cables, tables and handbooks are changed. You can bring your own blindfolds 
Soldato
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what quality wire do they put inside speakers
i think they use unicorn pubes in that 20 grand cable!
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You all get your knickers in a twist over something you have never experienced. Instead of trotting out the same old arguments why not have the balls to bring your ears and an open mind to a Hi-Fi open day. I'll lay on a range of affordable Hi-Fi gear to see if you can tell the difference between better components. Then we will listen to what happens when cables, tables and handbooks are changed. You can bring your own blindfolds
i would love that to be honest, could be a heart breaker though! i guess im lucky that i have the best system out of everyone i know (even the 2 with B&O systems sound worse, IMO, one of which cost £14k). if i hear something which blows mine out the water i guess i would think mine needed upgrading, which isnt gonna happen until i rob a bank lol.
lucid - i take it there is a cut off point where you stop seeing the greater quality improvements for the additional cash.
for example. you can easily hear a massive difference between cheapo satellites and a lower-mid range speaker set (similar to mine) but is a top end system costing £50 - 100k really 100x better sounding? like with performance cars you can get fast as hell for quite cheap, then pay quadruple the amount for a tiny bit more performance.
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Spend 20 grand on cables but what Quality goes inside the speaker
The weakest link and all that
The weakest link and all that
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Wow, jumping to conclusions there - but surely thats Better that getting your knickers moist over a piece of wire that is worshipped due to its enormous price tag?
Those arguments no one ever addresses?
An open mind should include the possibility that this might all be a load of bobbins designed to rip off gullible fools
I'll lay on a range of affordable Hi-Fi gear to see if you can tell the difference between better components. Then we will listen to what happens when cables, tables and handbooks are changed. You can bring your own blindfolds
And repeat the same experiments that have done before and failed to prove anything. It's the same arguments I've heard from homeopaths. If someone wants to sell me a cable costing that much then they'll have to provide some evidence it actually works first - that's not too much to ask is it?
Out of interest, do you apply similar principles of evidence to healthcare and other areas where charlatans like to roam?
<awaits the next step which will be suggesting I can't afford this/have a rubbish system or some other thing that is totally irrelevant>
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Unless the cable is pure silver of gold it wont make a hells bit of differance to sound quality and if they are it will only be to certain peoples ears.
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ive heard silver actually isnt as good in the long run. same with gold. i might be wrong though.
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Possibly never looked into it myself. Car audios more my thing.
You all get your knickers in a twist over something you have never experienced. Instead of trotting out the same old arguments why not have the balls to bring your ears and an open mind to a Hi-Fi open day. I'll lay on a range of affordable Hi-Fi gear to see if you can tell the difference between better components. Then we will listen to what happens when cables, tables and handbooks are changed. You can bring your own blindfolds
Why would I want to subject my subjective ears to your persuasion? I'd much rather read of this magical cable being successfully ABX tested.
Can you find me such a test?
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A lot of expensive cables deliberately defer from correct resistance, capacitance and inductiveness, tampering with the way a cable would normally do it's job fine in order for them to do things like act as high pass filters, or making the amplifier peak in the treble region, thus changing the sound audibly and making their client base buy new cables all the time in order for them to 'find the right sounding one'.
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...which is why I am offering to set up systems for testing. Come along and listen for yourself.
I said that before and it still stands now. I'm not defending Kimber's cable or whether it is value or not - What's perceived as "value" very much depends on the person you ask. Also, I don't have Kimber's cable on hand, but I do have a choice of budget, midrange and quite high-end cables to play around with. ***Come have a listen*** I can say it no plainer than that!
Yes. Exactly. Thank you! That's the WHOLE POINT!!! Just as one CD player sounds different from another, or one amp to another.
The nay-sayers would have you believe that all cables and even wire coat hangers sound the same. I am suggesting that, even on a modest Hi-Fi system, differences can be heard between cables just as much as changing any other component.
QUOTE=oli collett;22037629]but I don't believe kimber cable have ever put forward any research that does this, even though you would think it would be a fundamental part of R & D in such an expensive product![/QUOTE]Once again I'm not defending Kimber's product, but I do defend the position that good science knows what it thinks it knows and keeps an open mind about the rest. That's exactly how science evolves.
Surely thats just in the same way people try various amps and cd players aswell to "find the right sounding one"
You agree that one cable can sound different whether its technically accurate or not. People have their own preference of sound signatures so if someone can afford to spend this sort of money for something they want, why shouldn't they?
Yes, absolutely. I suppose it breaks down to how much someone is interested and then what sort of sound they're looking for. Bose would be a good example of giving people what they think is "better" sound - more bass and more treble - without actually improving the things that are really important.
I found my cut off point last year. I was playing around with a dCs Puccini CD player (£10K), then added the u-clock box (£3K). The guy who was with me could hear the difference but I couldn't.
Well you know about the laws of diminishing returns, so we don't need to go over that. But using your car analogy for a second, a Focus RS is a quick car, but a Ferrari or a Porsche will communicate so much more back to the driver about the road and the car's handling. You're getting so much more than just top speed or acceleration. Good music systems and good AV systems do the same too.
I'm not gonna get into what could end up a heated debate but I will say that my experience of a variety of cabling shows me that tonal differences and detail retrieval do benefit from improvements in cabling.
I'd certainly agree that the ultra high end cable linked to at the start of the thread are plainly ridiculous but having owned a couple of the lower end interconnects (specifically Silver Streak and I think Crystal CU's) I would say that the improvements are quite marked even over other high quality level cabling.
I presently use a couple of silver streaks in my main system and compared to others (DNM Reson, Van Den Hul, QED, etc... of similar value) they offered greater detail retrieval and a sound that far better suited the hardware I had.
Of course I'd imagine that had my hardware been different I may well have gone for different cabling. Like lucid explained there are many variables that impact a decision on a component and cabling is very certainly one of those.
I'd certainly agree that the ultra high end cable linked to at the start of the thread are plainly ridiculous but having owned a couple of the lower end interconnects (specifically Silver Streak and I think Crystal CU's) I would say that the improvements are quite marked even over other high quality level cabling.
I presently use a couple of silver streaks in my main system and compared to others (DNM Reson, Van Den Hul, QED, etc... of similar value) they offered greater detail retrieval and a sound that far better suited the hardware I had.
Of course I'd imagine that had my hardware been different I may well have gone for different cabling. Like lucid explained there are many variables that impact a decision on a component and cabling is very certainly one of those.
I have owned expensive Russ Andrews Speaker Cable 8TC - its very good but not to my 100% taste hence why I do not own it anymore.
In their defence they publish a lot of white papers and articles based around their products - more on mains cabling and the effects of so they do try to justify the products they sell
The argurment for better cabling is always debated - but put simply if your into the hobby enough and desire the best sound and can afford it - you would buy it simple - unless you didnt like it of course.
If nothing else but for the piece of mind you are getting the best possible sound you can.
If you purchase wisely you can get close for a lot less - but the considerably more expensivecabling will more than likely be better everytime
I personally would have an all Meridian system that does away with analogue cabling as that is where they identify to be the weakest link in the chain. Everystep in the chain alters the sound in some way is what they say - or somehting similar - but to get a top of their range 5.1 setup will cost £40-£50k all in - amps, speakers, processing etc
I am with better cabling - I can clearly hear the difference between a £200 set of interconnects from Chord to a £400 set of interconnects from Chord
In their defence they publish a lot of white papers and articles based around their products - more on mains cabling and the effects of so they do try to justify the products they sell
The argurment for better cabling is always debated - but put simply if your into the hobby enough and desire the best sound and can afford it - you would buy it simple - unless you didnt like it of course.
If nothing else but for the piece of mind you are getting the best possible sound you can.
If you purchase wisely you can get close for a lot less - but the considerably more expensivecabling will more than likely be better everytime
I personally would have an all Meridian system that does away with analogue cabling as that is where they identify to be the weakest link in the chain. Everystep in the chain alters the sound in some way is what they say - or somehting similar - but to get a top of their range 5.1 setup will cost £40-£50k all in - amps, speakers, processing etc
I am with better cabling - I can clearly hear the difference between a £200 set of interconnects from Chord to a £400 set of interconnects from Chord
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"Jumping to conclusions" - Not really. If you'd heard the number of systems I have where people have wasted thousands on upgrades rather than getting their current gear to work right then you'dunderstand.
Absolutely. There are products promoted by magazine reviews that sound flipping awful. Yet they sell by the bucket load because sheep would rather trust some opinion printed in a magazine rather than their own ears. Take mains conditioners for example. They certainly change the sound, but IMO not for the better.
Come have a listen. It's a simple as that.
Let's be clear here, just so there's no misunderstanding. Cable choices have to be appropriate to the system. There's very little point hooking up £200 quids worth of QED or Chord if one owns a £100 mini-system bought from Comet or a £300 all-in-one home cinema kit. But if you have listened to some proper Hi-Fi gear at a dealer's place who actually knows what they're doing, and the dealer has been able to show you a sound progression from spending £150 a box to say £300 and £600 per then I think it's definitely worth investigating whether cable can make a difference. Like it or not that £600-£1000 per box price level is still classed as budget gear by many of the leading British Hi-Fi manufacturers.
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Because your brave enough to trust your own ears, and you realise that ABX tests invariably involve the use of a comparator and that ends up wrecking the sound.
The best I can offer is you sit there blindfolded for listening tests where all you know is that music is playing but not which cable is in use. Let your ears decide.