Korean Grand Prix 2010, Korean International Circuit - Race 17/19

Telescopi said:
But you have to give him that hungary race, the opportunity presented itself and he took full advantage, nobody else did. 30 seconds ahead of the dominant Williams of JV wasn't it?

And Eddie Jordan himself said Hill gave him two choices, order Ralf to stay back or he'd run him of the road when he tried to pass. Beg indeed.
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Yep 30 seconds ahead, he did a great job but it was all about the tyres.

As for the last bit, that's BS. The radio conversation is there for everyone to hear. You can hear the pleading desperation as he asks for the team to stop Ralf coming at him or run the risk of getting no points at all. At no point does he say he would run him off the road.

Conversation starts at about a minute, it's pitifull tbh, you tell me that doesn't sound desperate and pleading.

 
Thats an interesting video. I've not seen that before.

I wouldn't say Hill was begging. I think he was merely pointing out the obvious. If Ralf had continued to harry Hill, Hill was going to push harder (that was pretty much what Hill was saying). And if that had happened, with closing racing, in the wet, both cars could've gone out.

Eddie, made the right decision and Ralf followed his bosses orders.

Obviously Ralf found the order difficult to swallow, as was witnessed by his delay in answering whether he had received the order.

I've always been a firm believer that teams should be allowed to "control" its drivers while they are on track, much like any team manager can "control" (or influence), their players when they are out on the field.
 
sunama said:
I think he was merely pointing out the obvious. If Ralf had continued to harry Hill, Hill was going to push harder (that was pretty much what Hill was saying). And if that had happened, with closing racing, in the wet, both cars could've gone out..
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Exactly that's all Hill was saying, to try to keep Ralf behind he was going to have to push harder. It was a shame for Ralf because he was so much faster than Hill in those conditions. Ralf was awesome and it's not often you got chance to say that.
 
Ok folks, I need to ask this question.

What makes what Jordan did in Spa 98, different compared to Ferrari in Austria (2002)?
Surely theoretically speaking, the team orders rule should have been brought into effect much sooner considering the above?

I would personally say there are two differences:

1. Ferrari's incident involved asking one driver to overake another, as opposed Jordan asking drivers to hold station (but still a team order which pre-determines the order in which they finish).

2. Obviously since it is an order to hold station, physical evidence of this cannot be seen by the crowds, whereas Barichello let Schumacher by on the very last lap.

I'm sure I've just opened a jack in the box, but what the hey, we got 8 days before Brazil :)
 
Because it was ferrari and because it was in America. The yanks can sit a scream at wrestling like it's real but when we go over there and give them a scripted result they get all huffy. ;)

You used the example that Jordans held station, well in 97 and 98 DC moved over twice to give Mika a win and there was a small outcry but nothing like when ferarri did it. Suggests to me it was more about MS and Ferrari.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Because it was ferrari and because it was in America. The yanks can sit a scream at wrestling like it's real but when we go over there and give them a scripted result they get all huffy. ;)
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It was Austria :)

You used the example that Jordans held station, well in 97 and 98 DC moved over twice to give Mika a win and there was a small outcry but nothing like when ferarri did it.
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As you said, I used the Jordans as an example, but there have been countless similar incidents. I just used the Jordans one since you put the youtube clip of it up.

dj22 said:
Suggests to me it was more about MS and Ferrari.
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The TIffosi in me says this. But the formula 1 fan in me says it was more about the switch was pulled off, ergo it's probably a combination of both.
 
Cavallino said:
It was Austria :).
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No there was a bit of booing at Austria, it didn't kick off until Indy that same year when MS slowed to give Rubens a win. The yanks kicked off and it became big news.

No one really cared though, but they panicked so they didn't upset the Americans. No different to mansell gifting a win to Patrese to say thanks. This time it happened in America and all of a sudden it was a sin.
 
dannyjo22 said:
No there was a bit of booing at Austria
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Oh dood. My original question said:

Cavallino said:
What makes what Jordan did in Spa 98, different compared to Ferrari in Austria (2002)?
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It was in Austria where the team orders palava kicked off. Thats the race which brought about the introduction of the team orders ban.

USA just further fuelled the fire, but it was not directly related to team orders since that was a decision which Schumacher took to gift the win. I.e. a made by a driver, whereas Austria, the team ORDERED Barichello over.
 
I strongly believe that team orders should be allowed, if only because if a team wants to they can still issue/implement team orders on the sly (McLaren and their "conserve fuel", comes to mind).

So, it seems to me that if you are an honest team adhering strictly to the rules, you will be at a disadvantage over a team which wishes to use team orders (on the sly).
 
Spunkey said:
I think team orders should be allowed, but only at a point where one of the teams drivers has no mathematical chance of winning the title.
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Thats pretty much what happens now.

When a drive has no mathematical chance of winning the title, while the team-mate does, the team ALWAYS back the driver who has a chance at the title. This already happens, though teams use "sly" tactics.
 
Hey,

Does anyone have a link to a high res version of the title contenders photo (the "recreation" of the famous 1986 shot)? If you could mail it to me or something, that would be ace :)

Cheers,

Su
 
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