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KTM 790 Duke

Discussion in 'Biker's Cafe' started by jigger, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Freeman

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 24, 2004

    Posts: 5,564

    I was always of the understanding that ABS on bikes only comes on when the wheels lock themselves. Not in normal use?

    Certainly on all the bikes I've used with ABS the only time I've managed to get it to work was by slamming on the rear brake.
     
  2. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,875

    Never had ABS, but likely my next bike will have it. I've had a few near misses where i'd preferred to have had ABS there so I can confidently slam on the anchors.

    I tell you what though, by the looks of that KTM (?) demo I saw a while back, their cornering ABS is damn good.

    edit: Video

     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  3. TallPaul_S

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 24, 2011

    Posts: 5,778

    Location: Kent

    Depends on the system, some are better than others, but - if you look at the basic physics, a front brake that has a direct connection via 3ft of hose to the front calipers can only give a more direct feel than a front brake with 10ft of hose which goes through an ABS pump. Even more so with linked brakes.

    My VFR doesn't have abs but it has linked brakes and they stop fine, but they feel dead.
     
  4. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 42,095

    Location: /* */

    If I didn't have ABS I would have ended up under the tractor with all the spikes instead of hitting its tyre and only breaking a leg.

    I will never ride a non-ABS bike, despite the loss of brake feel you get with it.

    Even the budget new more budget oriented KTM 790 has cornering ABS, which is impressive.
     
  5. arfoll

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 25, 2011

    Posts: 1,318

    Well i'm not sure, if the pressure is constant and no air, the length of the line shouldn't make much difference? The ABS pump would only just increase pressure regardless of master cylinder pressure so when activated sure feel would suck but until then surely it's essentially just a longer hose?

    ^ This being the internet I feel like I need to say this - I'm not trying to disagree or be annoying, just want to understand :)
     
  6. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 42,095

    Location: /* */

    Brake fluid is slightly compressible, so the more volume you have in the hose the less direct the relationship between the lever and the pistons.

    If there is a pump to increase pressure or an intervening system then that would have a delay on it which would again limit the brake feel.

    Any system that limits brake lever vibration (most newer ABS systems) also prevent you feeling with your fingertips when the front wheel is locking up or if the disc is warped etc. Older systems that would pump the lever when activating the ABS typically maintain good brake feel.

    ABS systems will stop you very quickly, but generally they aren't as good for brake modulation. For me the pros greatly outweigh the cons.

    The difference with ABS systems is very similar to the difference modern electronic ride-by-wire throttles had on feel.
     
  7. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,875

    Having not had ABS and always had **** brakes anyway, from where i'm sitting I would agree :D
     
  8. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 42,095

    Location: /* */

    On the Aprilia Tuono I could still choose where to steer when under full braking, so I could choose to hit the soft bit with the bike instead of the spiky bit with my head. Maintaining control when panicking and applying full front brake is now a necessary safety feature for me.
     
  9. Captain

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 1, 2011

    Posts: 18,238

    Location:

    The tests about the breaking distance was quite obviously done to make the ABS bike look better, when they were approaching the cones at 80MPH on the ABS bike, you could blatantly see them letting off the throttle before going past the cones making it look like ABS stops you much quicker and shorter than non ABS bikes.
     
  10. arfoll

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 25, 2011

    Posts: 1,318

    This to me sounds very much like the argument for stainless steel brake hoses, which in my experience it made no difference. I guess it could make a difference in the right conditions. Anyways I'm already firmly in the pro ABS camp like yourself.

    I find ride by wire difference relatively easy to tell though, although depending on the engine I think it's actually a good change although i'm sure some earlier systems sucked :) I'd love to have it on the K1300R.

    Tinfoil hat on much? I think at this point doubting ABS makes an effect on wet braking performance for the average rider puts you in the same camp as the flat earthers ;-) I did not see the same thing as you but in fairness they could have made it more scientific with a speed trap.
     
  11. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 42,095

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    Maybe you just don't brake hard very often, or you don't particularly appreciate brake feel. Neither are a bad thing by the way, we're all different.
     
  12. arfoll

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 25, 2011

    Posts: 1,318

    Yeah that's probably fair. But still compared to changing brake pads or even just renewing fluids etc I feel this stuff doesn't make much difference for 'normal' riding.
     
  13. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,875

    After reading more on the Duke 790, I will be doing a test ride next year for sure.
     
  14. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 42,095

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    If the suspension and brakes are decent then I'll likely be getting one. Well, unless I change my mind again before release :p
     
  15. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 19,875

    So long as it's capable of being set for luggage, i'm sure it'd be fine for me. What are KTM like for light luggage options for their nakeds? I'm just going to browse now, but not sure on quality vs 3rd party.
     
  16. .one.

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 1, 2006

    Posts: 3,642

    The only time you will feel the fluid is compressing is if you had boiled the fluid when it turns to vapour any other time is old rubber hoses or incorrectly maintained brake have never come across the feeling fluid is compressing lol.
     
  17. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 42,095

    Location: /* */

    I can't remember the last naked KTM that didn't support either official top cases or panniers.

    They also all have factory SW-Motech quick release tank bags now which are fantastic and let you fuel up easily.
     
  18. arfoll

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 25, 2011

    Posts: 1,318

    Ehehe you're probably right, it's probably mostly been down to the bleeding that I've ever felt a difference :) On the clutch of the K the fluid change/bleed made a huge diff.
     
  19. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 28, 2007

    Posts: 12,499

    The way I look at ABS is as a back up just in case you cockup. Same for traction control if the system steps in you messed up.
     
  20. jigger

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 28, 2007

    Posts: 12,499

    Interesting, but look at the guy who dropped the bike and how far over he was. I'm not sure any system could have helped TBH.