Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

I dont think it was reasonable for him to believe he was going to be killed or seriously injured in all those instances, no. I think he may have thought that though, due to his immaturity and inability to deal with situation he put himself in.

In which case how do you maintain the self defence claim if you don’t think those beliefs were reasonable.

You’re again keeping it vague here too, you’ve been asked which incidents and why but you don’t clarify, you just repeat the assertion but do so, again, devoid of any supporting argument or explanation.

No one else fired a firearm at him. Only Kyle showed no restraint in the use of firearms and that speaks volumes.

Well that's false too and has already been pointed out to you, in the first incident he was (he claims) threatened with a firearm and he didn't fire, he retreated, he was chased and he looked back and pointed his rifle but didn't use it, it's only when someone grabbed his gun.

Likewise, re: the skateboarder attacker, he attacked him first with the skateboard without being shot, it's only after a second attack and an attempt to grab the rifle that he's shot.

And again with the third instance, he aims but doesn't fire at the guy with the pistol, in fact, he then lowers his rifle it is only after the guy points his pistol at Kyle that he fires.

Further to that, in all those cases Kyle first retreats/tries to flee before he's attacked (or threatened with a gun) and eventually opens fire.

So to say he showed no restraint is bunk - he's fled/retreated in all cases and in the first and last case he's initially pointed and not fired, only firing when the threat to him increases.

As for no one else fired a firearm at him, one guy arguably almost did and Kyle was quick enough to prevent that another guy fired behind him (after allegedly threatening him) and for all he knew he had been fired at

Didn’t one of the people involved under cross examination by the defence, literally admit pointing a gun at Kyle and advanced towards him?

Yes, the last incident, pretty clear falsification of the claim being made above - Kyle lowers his rifle and doesn't immediately shoot that guy, it is only when the pistol is raised and pointed at him that he fires. In fact they had an earlier confrontation further back along the road in which Kyle obviously didn't shoot him either.

The only people who were shot that night were people who chased after Kyle and then attacked him & apparently tried to take his rifle off him or directly threatened him with a gun!
 
Last edited:
A. They could be reasonable to Kyle, but not reasonable to others/in the eyes of the law.

Just because someone thinks something is reasonable to them, doesn't give them a get out of jail free card.

Yes, exactly that's part of my point - this is the conflict here with you supporting the self-defence claim... how can you do that while simultaneously claiming that he's used excessive force and hold a belief that none of them posed a serious threat to his life or threat of injury.

You've still not giving any clarification there re: the incidents you think were excessive and why...

You seem to be struggling with this concept quite a bit and I'm not sure why because it's the main concept behind the entire case.

B. By restraint I meant actually using it in a deadly manner (which only Kyle did).

Nope not at all, you seem to be struggling to come up with any explanation/justification though.. I mean you've just avoided it again and kept things vague, what a surprise.

Kyle did show restraint in that sense as already explained, he didn't use it in a deadly manner on several occasions but simply pointed it in an attempt to get others to back off (first guy and third guy) and simply retreated in the very first instance with a guy with a gun, he only did so when attackers tried to grab the rifle from him, stomp his head or seemingly make a move to actually shoot him.
 
Last edited:
Hm, you clearly still don't understand the entire concept of this.

I'm not sure there is much point trying to explain it to you for the millionth time either.

You've not explained your position/clarified those conflicting assertions there once, let alone a million times, you just avoid/deflect when challenged or asked for specifics... there you are doing it again.

Basically, police entered a house unannounced had weapons drawn, the dude shot and wounded one of the police officers. All charges dropped as self defence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-56331483.amp

Because dlockers sees everything through his ideological position he thinks people on the right don't agree because 'black man'

Funny that, a guy hears people breaking into his house, he shoots at them and... its self-defence, doesn't even need a trial... which seems quite appropriate if those numpties didn't identify themselves initially.
 
Illegally carrying a firearm having traveled to the scene to participate in armed unrest?

Nope, that's false, he was over 16 and legally open carrying a long-barreled rifle that is looked after/stored in that state by his friend and registered in his friend's name because he's not yet 18. If he'd had a concealed carry pistol that would be illegal.

It was they who traveled there to participate in unrest not Kyle, he's claimed and there is plenty of evidence to support it, that he was there to protect local businesses, the unrest moved to the locations he and his buddies were protecting when the mob moved along.

Surely that invalidates everything else?

no not at all, invalidates how even? He's got as much right to be there as any other American - arguably none of them should have been there and he wasn't the one who attacked.

Surely you could flip around that logic - Rosenbaum traveled there after release from a mental hospital, he's a known felon/pedophile, he deliberately went out to actually participate in unrest, is seen participating in arson, making threats and generally being belligerent - this mental case/pedophile then chased after and attacked a minor/boy... surely that invalidates everything else?

If I take a sword to a football match to prevent the other teams fans being violent and stab a bunch of of opposing fans as they try to take my sword off me because they fear for thier lives am I defending myself?

Or should I have not been there?

Should I have not had an ilegal weapon?

*illegal as he was underage for the state to be armed

You shouldn't take a sword to a football match, you'll probably be arrested if you do, I'm not sure what your point is there.

After traveling 21 mile to place himself in danger?

His choice, it's a dumb thing for a 17-year-old to do, he wanted to help the community where his family live/where he works etc.. but it was very silly for him to be out there at night, still taking personal risk isn't against the law.

What's worse perhaps is the people who traveled there to deliberately create that danger in the first place, that includes people who proceeded to attack Kyle.
 
Last edited:
People just coming in this thread spewing ignorant tripe. How is this not trolling?

I think they're genuine re: the ignorance, I'm surprised we haven't had more: but but muh state lines arguments then, of course, no follow up when questioned about what the point they're making is/whether they can be specific about why that is relevant.

Instead, there have been other dubious arguments and then a move to deflect/avoid when asked for specifics or clarification etc..

I'm not sure where people think they're going with the he shouldn't have been there line, certainly doesn't invalidate anything as it applies even more so to the attackers, especially given they were there for even more dubious (criminal) reasons and they attacked him.
 
Prosecution right now is going over what Dowie didn't seem to be able to understand earlier (the difference between what Kyle thought, and what a reasonable person would think etc)

FYI

LOL cope...

This is just wildly untrue, I understood perfectly well, for example, the claim that the skateboarder might have been trying to apprehend him etc.. my question to you was re: what your point was - assume that to be true then what? You had no answer for me and just deflected/avoided it.

I'll point out again that the guy with the skateboard is dead, he's not on trial, Kyle is.

If you want to clarify then please do go ahead but I suspect, again, you won't have anything. Likewise, you won't answer the query between your contradictory assertions re: excessive force, a lack of belief that he had any danger of serious injury or death while simultaneously trying to hedge your bets by claiming to see the self-defence angle - that simply doesn't add up and you cant' even specify which incident you think was excessive and why?
 
You clearly didn't, because you kept asking stupid questions about it.

Sure enough, you can't answer/can't provide any clarification... deflection Jono strikes again. :D

you even crop out a tiny snippet of my post to reply/avoid the questions

This is just wildly untrue, I understood perfectly well, for example, the claim that the skateboarder might have been trying to apprehend him etc.. my question to you was re: what your point was - assume that to be true then what? You had no answer for me and just deflected/avoided it.
 
Maybe you need to ask yourself why you keep needing constant clarification (not just in this particular matter, but in most matters on this forum you find yourself involved in)

Perhaps you just don't understand what is being clearly said or understand the concepts involved (which you clearly didn't in this case).

Sure enough more deflection, perhaps ask yourself why you are unable to back up your assertions/keep on replying with deflection when challenged on them...

If you think I don't understand or have missed something then it should be super easy for you to point it out but you don't seem to be able to do so.
 
I have. Multiple times.

Its quite a simple concept. A concept the prosecutor literally just explained a moment ago.

Nope, you haven't you've just left the questions and are deflecting, again.

Replying with nonanswers three times in a row instead of simply answering just illustrates how farcical your position is - vague assertions and unclear arguments you can't explain and you have to continually evade any challenges to with deflection and "you don't understand" etc...
 
You clearly didnt. Hence the stupid questions about it.

All this effort into quickly throwing in a silly reply without actually saying anything just to avoid actually answering or providing any argument to back up your assertions... more deflection Jono in action.
 
It was a simple concept that you didn't understand. Own it.

If it's so simple then please do go ahead and answer/explain what your point was?

Suppose the skateboarder had (in his eyes) [valid reason] to attack Kyle then what?

Also, can we have an answer yet on the other point re: the apparent conflicting assertions you made with no arguments to support them yet?

[in b4 deflection Jono strikes again with another excuse to avoid answering]
 
He was allowed to be there, in the same way a woman with a short skirt is allowed to be out a night.

Don't like his rifle? Tough, he wasn't breaking the law, and that's what matters.

That pretty much sums up the "he shouldn't have been there" arguments and I suspect many posters would flip straight to "don't victim blame" in other contexts.

+ he was attacked and in each case, he fled, that he was doing something a bit reckless/dumb by being there in the first place doesn't negate his right to self-defence.
 
I mean it's probably not a good idea, in general, to try to attack someone open carrying an AR15, something you can apparently do legally in Kenosha.
 
It's a semi auto, it fires as quickly as you can pull the trigger. Multiple shots in less than a second is readily achievable.

Yup and you can hear that they were fired in quick succession on the video. While Kyle had quick reactions I doubt he's simply fired a few rounds to stop/I doubt the exact shot placement is registering with him, he just wants the mental guy to stop attacking him/feels threatened as his rifle is allegedly being grabbed.

The prosecution can claim the shot in the back was the result of a fall, the defence can claim it was the result of a lunge - I doubt anyone can claim to know for sure beyond reasonable doubt etc... The prosecution seems to be reaching a bit re: the first shooting incident.
 
There is a thing called hearing the evidence.

You hear it at the trial and see what the witnesses say.

Witnesses didn't seem to be too relevant there, was Kyle aged 17 and was the rifle barrel over or under 16 inches are matters of fact.

The law seems to be very badly written but it turns out Kyle had a better knowledge of that particular law than the prosecutor!

edit - prosecutor seems a bit clueless re: firearms:

NbsUWHo.png
 
The defence have been terrible throughout the trial imo

The only good point has been the rhetoric today in his closing arguments... he knows he's got relatively little to work with but he has a chance and he's going to try his best with the provocation angle and he's milking it hard.

The witnesses he had might as well have been defence witnesses at some points, he didn't present any evidence for the curfew charge and the firearms charge was a total mess, he literally got schooled on the correct interpretation of the law by the defendant on the stand, an 18-year-old kid only to later have the charge dismissed by the judge.

His witness/third person shot dropped a bombshell admitting he pointed his gun first. That the first guy was a paedo wasn't allowed but the prosecutor managed to allow in stuff about his meds...

It's basically the second person shot and the reckless charge relating to the jump kick person that might be riskiest for a charge though they also went with the strongest charge there for the second person shot, not sure that will fly... perhaps why they're bringing in lesser ones.

These charges were filed within like 48 hours and they basically didn't have the facts, it seems very political, a response to public outrage.
 
The last shooting incident is just BS - the first encounter he doesn't have a gun drawn, Kyle tells him he's going to the police, the second encounter he has his gun drawn (one in the chamber), the other hand has a phone in it he feigns a surrender, Kyle lowers his rifle then he takes aim at Kyle and gets shot... admitted on the stand that Kyle didn't shoot him until he pointed gun at him. Admits to his friend that he regretted not unloading the clip into Kyle.
 
For us non gun nuts what is him holding that rifle meant to show? Whys it red ringed? His finger is on the trigger? thats bad discipline ? (am i a gun nut)

Just a bit of humour, yes no reason for his finger to be on the trigger, he's a numpty... Obvs they were quite thorough in checking the rifle and being seen to show it had been checked in court so he didn't Baldwin anyone.
 
Back
Top Bottom