Latest highway code

whitecrook

whitecrook

whitecrook

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Hi all

just reading the latest hway code came across this about box junctions:

Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
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now has this changed in recent times? I had believed the rule was must not stop in box junctions, but this does not seem to prohibit that, providing of course you enter it when your exit is clear.
It would possible to enter when you exit is clear but it could be subsequently blocked and you would stop in the box, this is not prohibited? Additionally it does not say that you must clear it completely but for a roundabout box (signal controlled) you must clear completely.

Technically, then a stream of cars driving over a box are all breaking the law since they are entering before their exit is clear.

i had thought many people took exit mist be clear in order to comply with a must not stop, the same way double whites does not prohibit overtaking (as long as you do not cross them)
 
Rule 178
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
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This says you must stop at the asl if its amber or red, but if you have passed the asl but before the stop line, and it turns red then you must stop. This can only happen if you cross the asl on green and it goes amber red before you hit the stop line, no? I.e very slow moving traffic
 
whitecrook said:
Hi all

just reading the latest hway code came across this about box junctions:
Click to expand...



It does seem like a silly rule in practice. Could you imagine stopping before just to wait until the vehicle in front clears the box before proceeding. Your one of two cars driving towards a box junction. You should stop as you get there to let the car in front clear it, in case he decides/has to stop
 
mattyg said:
It does seem like a silly rule in practice. Could you imagine stopping before just to wait until the vehicle in front clears the box before proceeding. Your one of two cars driving towards a box junction. You should stop as you get there to let the car in front clear it, in case he decides/has to stop
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It makes perfect sense really. We have a lot of those box junctions up here, and people are always getting caught out because a queue of cars has built up and the next set of lights hasn't yet changed meaning the queue doesn't move. The lights then change on this box junction but cars on the alternate side can't go anywhere because this one car is now stuck in the box.
 
mattyg said:
It does seem like a silly rule in practice. Could you imagine stopping before just to wait until the vehicle in front clears the box before proceeding. Your one of two cars driving towards a box junction. You should stop as you get there to let the car in front clear it, in case he decides/has to stop
Click to expand...

Isn't the principle aimed at when you are in slow traffic rather than moving freely? If the exit from the junction is blocked and you just blindly follow the car in the front, you'll be blocking the other routes through the junction. Therefore wait outside the box junction and proceed over once your exit is clear, leaving the junction free.
 
#Chri5# said:
Isn't the principle aimed at when you are in slow traffic rather than moving freely? If the exit from the junction is blocked and you just blindly follow the car in the front, you'll be blocking the other routes through the junction. Therefore wait outside the box junction and proceed over once your exit is clear, leaving the junction free.
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but that's not what it says
 
Hmm I've find many references to fines when you stop in a junction but where is the law that you can't do that ? for examples literally

"The basic rule is that you are not allowed to stop in a yellow box junction."

from this page : https://thegrumpygit.com/how-to-appeal-a-yellow-box-junction-ticket/

and "Many motorists are not aware (no wonder, it's not mentioned anywhere I can find!!!!) that you can be fined for turning left at a junction where there is a yellow box if there is traffic in the road you are turning into and you are unable to clear the box. Transport for London are enforcing this."
from this page : https://penaltychargenotice.co.uk/m...ons-for-moving-traffic/contravention-code-31/

(OK, but this doesn't say if the exit was clear when you 'entered' Which is what the HWcode says)
plus a bunch of other sites from a quick google.

but again, this is not what the highway code says.

it links Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2) but I can't find the bit about stopping being an offence


does anyone have a highway code from mid 90's handy ?



another interesting link here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1686787
 
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Always been like that I believe

When its decent traffic moving speed you can normally see with enough certainty if you will make it past the box or not
If its slow moving this can be more tricky, and sometimes you need to hold back if its clearly touch and go if you will make it across into the clear or not.
 
whitecrook said:
Hmm I've find many references to fines when you stop in a junction but where is the law that you can't do that ? for examples literally

"The basic rule is that you are not allowed to stop in a yellow box junction."

from this page : https://thegrumpygit.com/how-to-appeal-a-yellow-box-junction-ticket/

and "Many motorists are not aware (no wonder, it's not mentioned anywhere I can find!!!!) that you can be fined for turning left at a junction where there is a yellow box if there is traffic in the road you are turning into and you are unable to clear the box. Transport for London are enforcing this."
from this page : https://penaltychargenotice.co.uk/m...ons-for-moving-traffic/contravention-code-31/

(OK, but this doesn't say if the exit was clear when you 'entered' Which is what the HWcode says)
plus a bunch of other sites from a quick google.

but again, this is not what the highway code says.

it links Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2) but I can't find the bit about stopping being an offence


does anyone have a highway code from mid 90's handy ?



another interesting link here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1686787
Click to expand...

The highway code isn't the law, it is essentially guidance - some of which is underpinned by the law.

Here is the actual law:

Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person—

(a)who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and

(b)stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.
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This is taken directly from The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 Schedule 19 Part II, which is what is referenced in TSRGD Regulation 29(2).
 
DRZ said:
that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
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So this bit, here, if I understand correctly, means that no person (i.e anyone, including the driver of 'the' vehicle) may cause a vehicle to stop (i.e. including the vehicle he is driving?) due to stationary vehicles, so if a driver entered a box junction, and had to stop their vehicle (because of stationary vehicles) then that is an offence?

So my original question in OP was right - the law says you must not stop in a box ?

Secondly i see the that it is only due to 'presence of stationary vehicles' So if the stop is because of a pedestrian, or horse or similar, this is not an offence, and indeed, even if the vehicle is not stationary, but causes my vehicle to stop, this also, would not be an offence ?
 
If you think traffic either in front or turning left will cause you to stop in the box, dont enter it. Only stop in a box if you are turning right and oncoming traffic prevents you from making progress.. simple as that. Dont overthink it dude.
 
Biggest problem with the Highway Code from what I see each day on my travels is nobody reads it….
 
whitecrook said:
So this bit, here, if I understand correctly, means that no person (i.e anyone, including the driver of 'the' vehicle) may cause a vehicle to stop (i.e. including the vehicle he is driving?) due to stationary vehicles, so if a driver entered a box junction, and had to stop their vehicle (because of stationary vehicles) then that is an offence?

So my original question in OP was right - the law says you must not stop in a box ?

Secondly i see the that it is only due to 'presence of stationary vehicles' So if the stop is because of a pedestrian, or horse or similar, this is not an offence, and indeed, even if the vehicle is not stationary, but causes my vehicle to stop, this also, would not be an offence ?
Click to expand...

If you stop in a box junction because you can't leave it due to the presence of another vehicle then yes you have committed an offence, except when turning right as described.

If you stop in the box to avoid a collision with a pedestrian etc then you have not committed an offence.
 
DRZ said:
If you stop in a box junction because you can't leave it due to the presence of another vehicle then yes you have committed an offence, except when turning right as described.

If you stop in the box to avoid a collision with a pedestrian etc then you have not committed an offence.
Click to expand...


OK thanks. So could you clear up on the MUST NOT enter unless exit is clear ? Since accordingly above, If I enter, but my exit is not clear, but I keep moving (i.e. do not stop) and successfully clear the box (the vehicle in front cleared it so I could too, for example) , is that an offence ? It doesn't look like it to me, although the hwaycode says MUST NOT that actual law above does not say that?
 
whitecrook said:
It would possible to enter when you exit is clear but it could be subsequently blocked and you would stop in the box, this is not prohibited?
Click to expand...
maybe badly worded, I agree

However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
Click to expand...

could be a nuance, that you should consider oncoming'ish traffic that turned (their) left and backed-up your exit , maybe you had already considered them as not oncoming traffic (I hadnt been) , if they did that you could be done, I think.
 
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