Soldato
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So berating racists, other bigots and the supporters of slave traders is a bad thing?
Laurence Fox
- Thread starter Amplus
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Caporegime
It depends how you define colour. I do find Latinos like Selma Hayek and Penelope Cruz hot
Caporegime
The problem is your view of who's a racist and who isn't is incredibly warped. And there's nothing wrong with remembering the deeds of slave traders, both good and bad. History isn't black and white so to speak.
Soldato
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Not really. Its your view of what is or isnt racist that is the problem.
A racist is someone that does, says or thinks racist things, its that simple. Just like bigots.
Remembering the deeds of slave traders. Yes indeed.
Now if you want to find a slave trader that came to the conclusion that what he had done was wrong and then went about trying to fix, repay for his 'slave trading' or then fight against the slave trade then yes Ill have a statue of that guy any day of the week.
But stand in support of someone that had continued until it was not allowed anymore then no I dont support that statue.
Caporegime
Look at Pablo Escobar. A vile creature, but he’s a godlike figure to some Colombians because he did some good things with his cash.
Soldato
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Yes thats exactly the same. Ive had it wrong all this time. Slave traders are the real heroes in this country...
Caporegime
No, I’m just saying how things are seen differently by different people, but you seem to take it upon yourself to be the all knowing wise man who knows everything, and anyone who doesn’t share your beliefs is a racist to the core.
I don’t know why you stick around if you think we’re a bunch of racists.
Soldato
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I dont stick around for the likes of you.
Come on, you are saying you support slave traders? Really?
Do you also support work houses and sending children up chimneys? How about the child brothels, you okay with them from our past?
Should we be having statues of their owners or should we celebrate those that brought those institutions down? Or is that woke.
Caporegime
Of course I don’t support them, but I also don’t see the benefit in this history cleansing that is going on. History is not all sunshine and rainbows, and we shouldn’t pretend it is.
Soldato
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Cleansing, Hmm...
How is your support of black history month and the teaching of the horrors of the slave trade? Were you in full support of that or did you want it all as you put it, cleansed?
Its a silly argument. Supporting statues of slave traders is not right, but at the same time Im not one that is calling for them to be removed. I do however find people that are supporting these statues a bit off.
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@Tony Edwards - I suspect that you may be flogging a dead horse here; as the Bible puts it:
"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."
"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."
Caporegime
So using the word cleansing gets you thinking does it. Yep, you certainly look for racism even where it doesn’t exist.
I couldn’t give a toss about the statues or BHM. And I never said that I wanted history cleansed, that’s what you want. And it’s perfectly correct that the reality of the slave trade be taught in schools.
Soldato
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You have said removing statues would cleans history. Ive never seen a statue of a slave trader in real life but I know about slavery.
Can we agree that having statues honouring slave traders and or racists is bad taste at least?
Caporegime
It’s not right, but look at it from the angle that many of these people, like Colston, did good things and bad things in life. They persecuted many and helped many. If we’re removing statues of those types of people then by rights we should be removing the statue of convicted terrorist, Nelson Mandela.
Soldato
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I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the statues issues. It seems that some people that question or raise concerns about defending the pulling down of statues get tainted with the label that they are somehow supporting the slave trade, or have no issue with Britain's colonial past but here's my position for what its worth.
Pulling down statues of A by group X is bad. Now it doesn't matter what A is or who X is. They could be applied to statues of famous singers, political figures, former kings etc. It doesn't matter. The groups could be a political group, supporters of a pop band, pro socialists, people from Hong Kong. It's really irrelevant.
Allowing any group, no matter how they are divided into groups to force political change is not conducive to a harmonious society and sets a dangerous precedent. These things should be decided (As they were in Bristol) by the democratic progress and not by baying mobs.
As a thought experiment, lets say you know a famous statue has been pulled down, but you do not know who it was a statue of, or who pulled it down. What is your position?
Soldato
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As I said if you want to show me a statue of someone that after all the terrible things they did then went on to do go things fine. Colson day job was slave trader, if he had then gone on to campaign against slavery, fine put a statue of him up.
Nelson was a freedom fighter, fighting for what he saw as the mistreatment of his country men and women by a bunch of ******* racists. He then went to prison and changed the minds of many people, the president of south africa to mention just one. he then went on to try to unify the country.
You are honestly putting those people up as the same type of character and worthy of the same honour or dishonour?
What utter nonsense.
How much outcry was there when the Micheal Jackson statue got taken down by FFC?
Caporegime
If you sign off bombings that kill innocent civilians then you are not a freedom fighter, you are a terrorist.
Soldato
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The point isn't how much fuss there is. Its whether you should allow groups of people to violently force change and bypass the democratic progress. Either you are for or against this.
I am against this kind of action no matter who the group doing it is, i.e. I have a moral standard. You didn't answer my question either but hey ho...
Soldato
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Im really not getting your side of the debate here Im afraid.
What?
What I certainly dont do is. "Whats that statue of that they want to pull down? Oh its a slave trader or racist." Ill be honest my first thought isnt Im strongly against that.
I mean Im sort of for the removal of statues of slave traders and racists but thats just the kind of person I am.
Not so much for Churchill but the others yeah get rid.
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Soldato
It's comments like this that demonstrate such a narrow minded opinion. It's either X or Y, no middle ground, no constructive or engaging discussion. If you're going to ask somebody a question don't immediately follow it up with an extreme choice of this or that.
If you don't agree with my views you're a bigot, a racist and a fascist [insert choice of derogatory comment].
