Liverpool fans labelled Europe's worst.

DanH84 said:
er i think his words were 'by hook or by crook'...

and i think the flag stealing was something along the lines of of 102 flags about the stadium 100 were nicked by 'pool supporters. or something like that.


edited to be fair.

Gaillard added: "We had 102 flags in the stadium, but by the time the game began there were only two left. People climbed up amid incredible danger in order to steal them, and we know a majority were Liverpool fans."
er that's why I said (possibly not word perfect) :)
If the majority were Liverpool fans the minority must have been Milan fans, they were impeccable according to Gaillard, how comes it's bad for one team to do it but not another? Gaillard is always slagging off English fans & teams.
 
cheets64 said:
Liverpool is just an easy target, shame on the liverpool fans for what they did at athens, charging at the gates knowing they didnt have tickets, sorry but did they not think about hillsborough.

Yep thats what i think too. No way are they the worst in europe but they always claim innocence for hillsborough. Like these chirpy cheeky chappies dont do anything wrong. The same thing could easily have happened.

Some fans seem to think its part of the fun to get into a liverpool game for free. Stealing tickets off kids, sad. One of my mates went to Paris for last years final, he said 9 out of 10 scouts where scousers :D

Simply they should not be allowed on a plane without a ticket for the game. Have officials checking tickets at the airport.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Yep thats what i think too. No way are they the worst in europe but they always claim innocence for hillsborough. Like these chirpy cheeky chappies dont do anything wrong. The same thing could easily have happened.

Some fans seem to think its part of the fun to get into a liverpool game for free. Stealing tickets off kids, sad. One of my mates went to Paris for last years final, he said 9 out of 10 scouts where scousers :D

Simply they should not be allowed on a plane without a ticket for the game. Have officials checking tickets at the airport.

it's tricky with all the freedom of movement and things we have in europe at the moment though. Mind you, i'd like to see how many people would dare misbehave in Russia next year. I personally wouldn't want to take my chances with the Russian police.
 
How many people from the UK work for UEFA or FIFA? It seems to be overrun with French and Italian employees who will always shift the blame away from their own countries.
 
JohnnyG said:
From what I heard on the radio this morning 1 of the 25 incidents was something as 'trivial' as stealing some flags.
If Liverpool were to accept the blame (not all) & be more vocal in condemning the actions of a large amount of their fans in Athens it probably wouldn't be so bad.
Parry put his foot in it a bit just before the game when he jokingly said something about there will be around 40k Liverpool fans in the ground as they'll manage to get in somehow (possibly not word perfect) if that's the attitude their CE has it's no wonder the fans think they can get away with stuff.

With Liverpool fans there will always be 'stealing', all 25 incidents probably involve theft ;).
 
Dont think you will ever stop fans travelling tbh, with the crap allocations that they give out now, its inevitable that tckets will end up on the blackmarket, when that happens, people will chance it.

If Uefa can take a leaf out of Fifa's book, and setup fan parks in the city where a final is gonna be held, then atleast, if you have no ticket at least you have something to do, germany was ace last summer in that respect.
 
I think the biggest problem here is that peeps are trying to shift blame in its entirety to one side or the other, where we should realise that its not that simple. What is dissappointing is that there is no recongition from either side that things could have been handled differently - UEFA on ticketing/policing (at other matches, not just this one) and Liverpool on the conduct of their own fans.
However - it does beggar belief that Parry (who as shown above gives tacit approval to Liverpool fans methods of entering the stadium by any method) cannot see any fault from his side.
I've seen enough posts on forums from (as far as I know) beleivable sources which together with the youtube videos, press photography etc shows that Liverpool fans were guilty as charged of many of these actions - here's one that I read a little while ago:

Big Red Richie: I've seen many a post on RAWK and other sites in the last six months from people replying to post on various subjects,
where they or others get lambasted for 'being a grass'.

Following Liverpool away I have seen some awful incidents. The
occurrences of the last few days have just brought the problems into
sharp focus.

There have always been gobturkish delights that followed Liverpool,
and any other football club for that matter, but certainly in the
last eighteen months or so I think it has got steadily worse,
certainly from my own perspective and observations.

Whether it be petty theft, wiping out shops(La-cost - Barcelona 2002
anyone ) scousers beating up fellow followers because they are
OOters, racially abusing the locals, throwing bottles across squares
because there wasn't a bin within arms length, soaking other teams
fans because they had the audacity to want to walk through a certain
street etc.(Chelsea - Cardiff to name but one), and a lot worse.

There will be some of you out there that say it has always been that
way, and you are probably right , but it certainly seems like the
problem has gotten worse in the last couple of years.

After the events of this week, there are a number of diehard fans (myself included) who are having a long hard look at wether we should
be bothered with the hassle of travelling to away games in future.
I know a couple of people who go everywhere to follow LFC who have
been pondering this one all season. I think that they've just seen
enough to make up their minds.

For all of the rhetoric that comes from official sources, media and
the like, ultimately it's up to the fans to police themselves to a
certain extent.

I've lost count of the number of occasions that I've sat on an away
coach and had to listen to vile racist abuse thrown about at locals,
opposition players, even our own players and own fans. All from
the 'crew' of anywhere between five and fifteen feral merchant
bankers on the back seat who don't have a braincell between them.
Sitting there smoking dope and snorting turkish delight.
All for a laugh, don't ya know laaa.

I made the mistake once of asking if they would tone it down a bit,
and was probably lucky to not end up in hospital, or worse. The funny
thing is not all of these merchant bankers are young lads who you
could pass off as they don't know better. Certainly, a large amount
of the scrote's are lads under twenty, but there is a hardcore that
go right up into their forties.

On our plane home from Athens there were a couple of incidents that
made me think.

A group of about eight , were generally being **** all the way home.
Before we had even boarded the plane one of them had given another
passenger a dig or two. And then preceded to threaten the lad all the
way home. It's funny how they are always big and hard when they are
mob handed.

Something has got to give, but at what point as fans do we try to
police ourselves without putting ourselves at risk of violence or
threats from other 'gangs' of fans.

I'm all for trying to police our own, but when there is just yourelf
and a mate, and they are mob handed, at what point do you just bite
your lip and say nothing unless you get filled in. Any yes I've seen
a few or our fans getting a good hiding from our own fans in the last
couple of years, and mostly for something absolutely trivial.

Do we start taking footage on mobile phones, and reporting it the the
club?
......... Oh no, sorry. That makes me a grass, doesn't it.

At what point do we say enough is enough, or the alternative is that
genuine fans will start jibbing the aways off and the only ones that
will still be going to them are the gobturkish delights that give ALL
of us a bad name.

To be honest, there isn't an answer to this one, but somethings got
to give or we'll end up being back in the dark days of the 70s and
80s.


Mmmmmm.

Personally I got in early as I knew something would kick off. Glad I did: my seat was still spare but my three mates' next to me were taken by bunkers. There were thousands in the ground without tickets.

If anyone really thinks this kind of behaviour is in no way related to what happened in Hillsborough then that beggars belief IMHO.

The fact is that the police last night did what was right to stop another dangerous crush. Which was lock loads of decent ticketed reds out for a game they qualified for. If they'd open the gates only a miracle would have prevented a Hillsborough type crush. You see the authorities have learned how to prevent tragedy: we as a group still don't care. "In's in la". *****. And in this same group of bunkers will be those that shout loudest about H.J.C. etc.

You know one of the worst things about what the Sun printed? That we as a group have partly used it to absolve ourselves of all blame for what happened at Hillsborough. We haven't had the insight to realise that our own behaviour can set in train a series of events that can create a situation for the police to mismanage. Or rather we seem to have forgotten that. For years after Hillsborough behaviour did seem better but its got worse over the last two seasons, and this season particularly. Perhaps its young lads now who are too young to remember the late 80's but are now old enough to go the game who are chiefly responsible.

I don't give two hoots (O.O.T.S. ?) that I don't have a scouse accent, I have the blood, my family have been on the Kop since the thing was built. All this "they were only robbing wool whoppers". Do run away with your scouse fascism. Thats what it is pure and simple. I've had enough of it. I've know O.O.T. lads who follow this club all over and are great ambassadors for it, not like the crazed numbskull spewing bile in the direction of innocent Greek old men and ladies on the metro on the way to the game. People who when he had got bored were pleasant enough to being showing us all photo's of their "end" at A.E.K. Athens, and wished us all the best for the game.

You know what we have got some whoppers following us, and the worst are with a scouse accent. Licenced to rob, to fight, to bunk, to show frank disregard for anyone but their selves. Licenced to stand there the whole game singing racist and antisemetic songs. Licenced to kick the **** out of an 18 y.o.ish Milan fan in our end - although obviously licenced to bunk in their end when they like him are just desperate to watch their team.

You might say "do one if you don't like it", and do you know after over twenty years I feel on the verge of doing just that. So do a lot of other reds, scouse and O.O.T., who I have spoken to in Athens today. It is just a matter of time before there is another tragedy. A sad inevitability.

We can't police ourselves. We can't do a Celtic and take 70,000 to Spain and let those lucky enough to have tickets go watch a game that they have qualified to watch. We can't respect the fact that we are a global club with global fans and as a result we get to play in global events like Champions League Finals. We can't stop making pathetic excuses for the behaviour of idiots based upon the fact their victims speak differently to them.

I'm gutted. Not so much by a defeat instigated by what I believe will prove to be a bent ref - if you will play football matches you have to expect to lose some of them. I'm gutted 'cos I realise that things have gone backward. The abyss of ghosts past await.

But that's alright la, cos ins in, innit?

(apologies if this has been posted before)

This email did the rounds after a complaint from an LFC fan about policing at the CL game at Stamford Bridge:

Mr Talman

Obviously I cannot comment specifically regarding your complaint about police action. The entry of the away fans was orderly and controlled until just before kick off when a large number of away fans, many who had been drinking heavily, tried to get in, some without tickets, some with forged tickets and some with tickets from our match in 2005.

Some tried to force there way in, entering two to a turnstile and some tried to jump and force gates.

In the interests of the safety of all concerned and to ensure there was no overcrowding inside the stadium it was necessary for the club and police to take action to prevent the unauthorized entrance of a large number of ticketless fans. I trust this puts the incident into some perspective.

Regards

Edward Ashwell

Head of Security

Liverpool DO need to look at the behaviour of their fans - it is not enough to try to shift blame entirely onto UEFA.
 
Last edited:
Anders0n said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6717793.stm

Also what about people being able to get in with poxy leaflets? Is that our fault aswell? You can't balme people for trying it.

ahh the good old - lets put the responsibility at someone else's door routine.

is it the police's fault for not stopping the robbery of tickets also?!

just about sums up the fans tbh, try anything on and then complain like buggery when you get caught out.
 
Condemnation and Justice should be even handed. Unfortunately where English clubs are concerned they are not. I still think that behind closed doors the whole English football setup is still seen as second rate because of Hillsborough, Heysel and the reputation of English fans in general through the 70's, 80's & 90's bi UEFA. Its a borderline vendetta imho

As been said above there are countries a lot worse in Turkey, Spain & Italy for racism and violence. The irony is that England has propbably gone way above what it is obliged to do to stamp out violence and racism within stadia. Obviously what goes on outside the grounds is a different matter as that never gets reported on.
 
Rick Parry today responded to Uefa spokesman William Gaillard's scathing attack on the club's fans by insisting that his comments shouldn't be allowed to cloud over the real issue ahead of a meeting between the British government and Uefa this week.
"The shortcomings in the management of the situation in Athens were apparent to anyone who was there," insists Liverpool Chief Executive Rick Parry, "and these latest comments from Uefa should not deflect attention from that reality. What is most surprising about the latest comments from Mr Gaillard is that on the eve of the final, he quite rightly commented that Liverpool supporters 'have a tradition of good behaviour'.

"Let's not forget that these same supporters who Mr Gaillard is claiming are now the worst in Europe were praised by Uefa President Michel Platini after our semi-final victory against Chelsea only last month, commended for their behaviour in Istanbul in 2005 and actually honoured by Uefa at a gala dinner in Monte Carlo in 2001 as joint Supporters of the Years with Alves after the UEFA Cup final."

Richard Caborn, the British Sports Minister, is meeting Uefa President Michel Platini on Tuesday and top of the agenda is the problems that marred the Champions League final in Athens.

"I have a lot of sympathy with the Liverpool fans who paid their hard-earned money for genuine tickets but couldn't get into the ground," revealed Caborn, who is traveling to Brussels to meet Platini. "The reasons for this need an urgent explanation. We have already raised the matter with the Greek authorities through our embassy in Athens and government officials are also talking with UEFA. I will be putting this issue high on the agenda at a meeting I am to have with Michel Platini."

Of particular interest to Caborn will be why Liverpool's concerns prior to the final about fans safety and security measures to guard against overcrowding due to forged tickets were seemingly ignored by Uefa.

"To have a stadium with no counting system and no turnstiles is unforgivable for any standard of game, let alone a major final," explained Parry.

"We produced a report for Uefa a week beforehand predicting, sadly, all of the things that did go wrong. We told Uefa our intelligence suggested there were 5,000 forged tickets in existence. They knew and we knew that thousands of fans would travel without tickets and we stressed the need for a proper check at the outer cordon."

Already one Liverpool supporter is threatening to sue Uefa for compensation after being denied entry to the Olympic Stadium in Athens despite having a valid ticket. Paul Gregory, an architect and former Liverpool Football Club shareholder, paid £2,370 for flights, accommodation and tickets for the final and insists, in a letter sent to Platini, "I would like this to be reimbursed by Uefa.

"It's the least you can do for putting our lives at risk. If this is not forthcoming we intend to take action against Uefa through the British judicial system, and through the European Courts if necessary. It was only through good luck that Uefa avoided deaths."
 
that's shifting all the blame back onto UEFA though, as i've said there's no way Liverpool have the worst fans in europe, unfortunately there were a minority of fans who caused the grief for the other correct ticket holders, turnstiles and other bottlenecks could have led to a real crush.

it's a shame and doesn't reflect on the majority of supporters and doesn't excuse uefa from accusations of bias or incompetence but they simply had to stop genuine ticket holders getting in in the end or you could have ended up with an utter disaster.
 
maby66 said:
I think the biggest problem here is that peeps are trying to shift blame in its entirety to one side or the other, where we should realise that its not that simple. What is dissappointing is that there is no recongition from either side that things could have been handled differently - UEFA on ticketing/policing (at other matches, not just this one) and Liverpool on the conduct of their own fans.
However - it does beggar belief that Parry (who as shown above gives tacit approval to Liverpool fans methods of entering the stadium by any method) cannot see any fault from his side.
I've seen enough posts on forums from (as far as I know) beleivable sources which together with the youtube videos, press photography etc shows that Liverpool fans were guilty as charged of many of these actions - here's one that I read a little while ago:






(apologies if this has been posted before)

This email did the rounds after a complaint from an LFC fan about policing at the CL game at Stamford Bridge:



Liverpool DO need to look at the behaviour of their fans - it is not enough to try to shift blame entirely onto UEFA.

This stuff is bang on - the most sickening aspect of some of the post-match reporting (esp. in Liverpool) was invoking Hillsborough to excuse fans and shift the blame to the police.

Uefa have just slung out a quick story to take the high ground on this. To be expected. LFC cant go in to weed out the divs amongst the fans because there are too many, and Old Swan solidarity will kick in and lead to a backlash against the club.

Its not just English clubs with die hard divs - most clubs worldwide have them. The mainstream shift of football in the UK has perhaps radicalised them a little (and clubs are scared of losing this legacy!), as they see themselves as the true heirs to football of the 80's, and having to live up to this reputation. Perhaps better to let them kick out a little to identify them, and then ban them, rather than have their attitude infect the next generation.
 
Gaillard is the biggest **** in football. Likes its been said, prior to the game Gaillard came out praising Liverpool fans as did Platini after the Chelsea game. Like JG the majority of these 25 incidents are trivial things which Uefa are using to cover up there **** up.

Undoubtedly there were a number of idiots trying to get in without tickets but to claim that Liverpool fans are the worst in Europe is ridiculus especially when you look at the likes of Roma; 5 Liverpool fans stabbed in 2001, 3 Boro fans stabbed the other year, ref hit with the liter the other year and then the trouble vs Utd, 4 major incidents in the last few years off the top of my head compared to one serious incident involving our fans :rolleyes:
 
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