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Local Rivalry

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by Vandle, 25 May 2006.

  1. Vandle

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Jul 2004

    Posts: 2,814

    Location: Melbourne , Oz.

    Right , this is something Ive been thinking about for a while and tonight made me post it.

    I was listening to the local phone in on century fm , Supermac , Eric Gates and Bernie Slaven.
    Named , with artistic license , The 3 Legends.

    Anyway , there was this bloke on tonight from Sunderland and he was a Spurs fan.
    He was very bitter towards Arsenal for pipping them to the magical 4th place.
    He then vented his spleen about his joy at their defeat to Barcelona in the champs league final and his hatred towards them.

    This got me thinking a bit.
    What would make this bloke who lived in the north east all his life , and had a very strong sunderland accent , hate Spurs rivals so much?

    I fully understand the hatred between local sides and the pride you feel with it towards your own team.
    I probably have a different perspective on this than most , we are a one horse town up here and when we play sunlun it could be said its not a proper derby.
    A derby between 2 different cities??
    Anyhoo , I digress.

    We know the feeling when we go away from home , we know we are representing our fair and noble cities.
    We know that not only are we supporting our team , we are also defending our honour , our heritage and our homeland.
    We know our team is the best because its ours , it belongs to us , the people.

    I suppose Im asking a few questions here.

    1. To the many supporters on here who have valid reasons for not supporting their home town club.
    Do you still feel that sense of regional pride when you watch your team?
    When you are away from home do you feel at one with the rest of your fans?
    What about when your team visits your home town , how do you feel then?
    What about when your local club plays its rivals , how do you feel then?
    What about when you play your local rivals , does it make you spit venom towards them like the locals?
    Do you really feel part of the tribe or feel like you are missing out a little?

    2. To the fans of Arsenal / Spurs , Everton / Liverpool , United / Citeh , etc.
    You play alot of "derbys" in a league season - particular London and Lancashire clubs.
    Do you feel this gives you a disadvantage or an edge?
    Do you HATE your rivals ?
    In the teams I gave above there is currently a supremely dominant side in each city.
    Does the hatred turn into pity for the less fortunate side?
    Do you feel the atmosphere between supporters is more at ease because you are living amongst the enemy?
    Do you think regional pride still has a place in the modern game or is this being eroded away as much as anything else nowadays?

    Comments or answers please lads. :)

    That'll be all. ;)
     
  2. BrenOS

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,267

    Location: The Castle

    I think I've got a lot to say here, I might go on a bit...

    Firstly, "The Three Legends". Malcolm MacDonald really winds me up. I find myself disagreeing with nearly everything he says, and his general attitude and how he puts his points accross just grind on me. Bernie Slaven seems like a nice fella and always makes his points well.

    I'm from the north east, lived here all my life, the last 5 of those in Newcastle. I've supported Man Utd since I was a boy. I was football mad after Italia '90 and my dad was a Man Utd fan, so naturally I followed his lead. I still remember us winning the Cup Winners in '91 and posing next to the TV in my new top when we lifted the trophy. One thing that particularly sticks in my mind here was from before the game. As the players walked out, I remember my dad saying, "We never win anything in white" and I actually did my bit in encouraging him we would win. This exact sequence of events was repeated in '99, and my dad was astonished I remembered '91. I digress.

    I've shared your train of though on this for some time. This even made me question myself most recently. I really don't like Liverpool, City, Leeds, Arsenal, Chelsea and to a lesser extent Bolton. I don't mind seeing Sunderland and 'Boro do well, but living here and being a Utd fan means I get to revel in Newcastle's bad results. But...

    In the CL final last year, I found myself really wanting Liverpool to win. Infact, I went pretty ballistic when they turned it round. Enjoyed the fact that an English club were Champions of Europe for a couple of weeks, then realised that we are now not the last English club to win it. Bit of a downer.

    Fast forward to this year with Arsenal in the final. Complete opposite mindset. I don't want an English club winning it again and it not being Man Utd. I felt a little ashamed after my patriotism last year, but sod it, no. I've always had admiration for Barcelona too (a certain Mr. Romario did this in the early '90s) but if Liverpool had faced them the previous year I'd have still gone English. Funny how things change.

    I assume you're a geordie and have lived here all your life? If you had to move to *gasp* London with a brilliant job opportunity, your loyalties wouldn't change. If you support a club, you support the club irregardless of your location. Your decision may be based on location, but if you're a genuine supporter you'll stick with them if things change. I got to see Man Utd a reasonable amount at school, which was great that a) I was able to get tickets through family and b) my dad would drive down. Haven't seen them live through Uni but that was to be expected.

    I think the following of your club negates location based rivalry. I'm a Man Utd fan living in Newcastle, but I have no reason at all to "hate" Sunderland. However I'm a Man Utd fan so you're damn right I want to see them beat City and Liverpool. I don't think rivarly against similiarly-challenging opposition (Chelsea, Arsenal) can be discussed here, and I've already typed too much.
     
  3. NokkonWud

    Caporegime

    Joined: 1 Oct 2004

    Posts: 26,314

    Location: Redcar

    I have the best Bernie Slaven clip ever on my mobile :).
    It's too big to MMS to you all though, which sucks :*(.
     
  4. wedgie

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Jan 2005

    Posts: 8,538

    Is it the time where he gets his arse out in the shop window after he said boro wouldn't beat utd, which they then went on to do 3-2?
     
  5. Gilly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 95,523

    Location: I'm back baby!

    I think Leeds have suffered from not having any local rivalries through the years.
     
  6. ra5a-libre

    Banned

    Joined: 19 Jan 2005

    Posts: 937

    Location: Middlesbrough

    vandle i believe you and sunderland have the biggest rivaly, and boro are just jealous of it. i think boros main rivaly is with sunderland and newcastle cos we play each other the most. whereas say we were in a lower league or biggest rivals maybe darlo or hartlepool i dont know i havnt been around long enough to see us so far down ;)

    however i think when i travel to newcastle for boro games, it is all pride, im up there representing my town, club etc just like you said. to me though its not really a hatred, its just a good laugh all the banter. ok at times it may get violent (most of this probably happens well away from the ground) but i mean when we go to st james park we park right near the ground and its a police escort in. i dont think so much is needed, but i guess if it wasnt ther, they might be a bit more trouble than what happens. But i agree that clubs from different towns/cities can be BIG rivals or what more fun could you have at a game it would just be as boring as playing a midlands team for us not a lot of banter :(

    Leeds i wish had got back into the Prem cos thats one ground i used to love going to when they were in the premier i would class them as another rival of middlesbroughs.

    on the issue of people supporting clubs outside their hometown, i heard the spurs mackem fan and i found it a bit of a joke tbh. i mean i wonder just how many times hes went to see them etc. i can agree with ok my dad is a so-so fan and i was born there, but moved to so-so when i was younger but i do try to get to the games, thats fair enough you cant help where your parents or you might wanna move to. as for the past 2years i lived in Aberdeen, missed a lot of boro games including the uefa ones, and some big games with Newcastle etc. but im not from aberdeen, got a scottish accent etc. i think im going off on a tangent.

    I think the question about living in the same area as your rivals, might make it more relaxed, but i think at games they might be a bigger risk of trouble at games, because you could bump into a rival anywhere. whereas we go to newcastle the police pull most of us up in washington and where escorted to set areas where the police can keep a eye on us. but this probably doesnt happen say in north london.

    but anyway to answer a few more questions, to boro fans LOCAL PRIDE does still exist, i mean we dont mind the jibes of the geordies about the smog, i mean were SMOGGIES & PROUD because thats our heritage, that is what has made middlesbrough, the iron and steel works etc. dont think i have much else to add, maybe im too young to understand it all atm (18 btw) but ive been a middlesbrough season ticket holder since the last season at Ayresome Park (94/95 season)
     
  7. Karl

    Mobster

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,480

    Location: No

    I'm stuck in league one, love it or hate it, as a fan of Bristol City.

    Bristol Rovers are our rivals, and during the 80s it was apparently more violent than it is now. Now it just seems like friendly banter unless there are proper thugs about.

    Regardless, even though I'm supposed to hate Rovers as they're not my team and stuff, I just couldn't care less. If they were in the same league, I don't think I'd care any more than I do now. I don't have it in me to hate another team just because they play in the same City as our team.

    I do however, have proper pride for our City, and I get quite passionate during games. For those 90 minutes, I absolutely adore it when my side are winning, and am devastated when my side are losing. I've been a City fan since I was a tiddler and don't support any premiership team. :)
     
  8. Gooner14

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Apr 2003

    Posts: 4,134

    Location: In a state of Flux

    My local club would be Cambridge Utd. Cambridge is not a hot bed of football! My closest good side would be Ipswich.

    Do you still feel that sense of regional pride when you watch your team?

    Yes.

    When you are away from home do you feel at one with the rest of your fans?

    Yes, I think so.

    What about when your team visits your home town , how do you feel then?

    Like thats going to happen!! We did play Utd in the FA Cup once (Dublin scored, but Arsenal won) it was odd to think some of my mates were in the Cambridge end at Highbury whilst I was in the Home section!

    What about when your local club plays its rivals , how do you feel then?

    Not bothered, I do watch out for Utd's scores but I don't care about them!

    What about when you play your local rivals , does it make you spit venom towards them like the locals?

    Yes, I'll insult every Spurs player and question his parents heritage as much as the next man.

    Do you really feel part of the tribe or feel like you are missing out a little?

    Perhaps, but not really

    Do you feel this gives you a disadvantage or an edge?

    Disadvantage. We do play lots of Derbies, and it helps the other teams players and fans up for the game, and levels the playing field.

    Do you HATE your rivals ?

    Yes, lots.

    Does the hatred turn into pity for the less fortunate side?

    Nope!

    Do you think regional pride still has a place in the modern game or is this being eroded away as much as anything else nowadays?

    To an extend.

    I was listening to the radio a while back, and a lad on was from Sunderland, he supported Northampton Town?!!? Perhaps the locals can't stand their own team!

    I'll always hate Spurs, but after all it's still banter, and I've had great discussions in the past with Spuds about both sides.
     
  9. Loki

    Asus Rep

    Joined: 17 Nov 2004

    Posts: 9,865

    Location: The Republic

    Im a UTD fan and have been going since the early 80's. Really there is only one rival in my eyes and that is firmly our good freinds up the East Lancashire Road at Anfield. It does border on obscene hatred at times between the two sets of fans from the late 60's to the early 70's in footballing terms. The city rivallry between Manchester and Liverpool goes back even further to the 20's and the dockers in Trafford Park.

    But for pure rivallry its Liverpool. Leeds, City, Bolton etc dont come close. Utd see City as pretty much a joke club as they want to be accepted as a massive club as they have this "massive" support home and away who deserve success Lat time they were promoted to the Premiership they had over a quater of a million fans turn up at the away game they got promoted at :o Arguments always degenerate into how Manchester United dont come from Manchester, their pitch is bigger, bigger floodlights, better pies. All to disguise the fact that for the most part they have always lived in Utd's shadow. From a cultural point of view they have Oasis as a celebrity band who loves siddy. Utd have pretty much every band from Madchester scene of the late 80's early 90's. Do I pitty our rivals ??? Only when they resort to singing Munich sonds because when it gets to that level every sensible argument has long since gone

    I don't hold much weight to the argument about Lancashire or London derbies are a distraction. As teams have more overseas players I think the derby aspect plays less of a prominent role to the players now. Gone are the days of a North or West London Derby with 8 or so players from the area battling for local pride on the City. Derbys are still big for the fans though
     
  10. mad_allan

    Mobster

    Joined: 17 Dec 2003

    Posts: 3,219

    Location: Peterborough

    So not only do we hate our main teams, our local teams are bitter rivals too (<----points to location).

    I feel very strongly towards the other team in North London, I was gutted they pipped us but such is football, that's why we love it so much.
     
  11. Gooner14

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Apr 2003

    Posts: 4,134

    Location: In a state of Flux

    :eek:

    I have to admit I always played as Peterborough on Championship Manager! I currently live halfway between both cities, but class myself as a Cambridge boy, and I'm moving their next month. I'll actually by very close to Histon then and might go to a few of their games.

    And I hate football, I hate the way it lets you down when you lose. I'd love to be able to stop, but I can't as I love it too.
     
  12. nin9abadga

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 9 Jan 2006

    Posts: 1,440

    Location: Nottingham

    as a liverpool fan i have to agree! liverpool/everton is more "friendly" - liverpool/united is hatred (for most of the time!). and im pretty sure it goes back even further than the 20's, back in the days of the slave trade and when liverpool was a big busy sea port.

    as a liverpool fan i'm developing an unhealthy dislike of chelsea now (mourinho in particular) and i'd actually rather see united win than chelsea!!! omg, i can't believe i just said that.

    nin9abadga
     
  13. Loki

    Asus Rep

    Joined: 17 Nov 2004

    Posts: 9,865

    Location: The Republic

    Sent shivers down my spine. As I was rooting for Liverpool in the FA Cup semi. This is not good, must hate more, must get out 100 great golas from Kenny Daglish ;)

    Thing is as two cities Liverpool and Manchester have so much in common in terms of musical heritage, sense of humour etc, historically working class cities
     
  14. mad_allan

    Mobster

    Joined: 17 Dec 2003

    Posts: 3,219

    Location: Peterborough

    I played for Histon about 6 years ago, small world!
     
  15. Gooner14

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Apr 2003

    Posts: 4,134

    Location: In a state of Flux

    Cool. I'll be in Milton, near to Cambridge City, but they have sold their ground so I've no idea where there will be based. The lad I'm moving in with used to play for Histon about ten or so years ago, in the youth side.

    Cambridge City and Utd hate each other with a passion, and they could end up sharing a ground!
     
  16. RealDeal

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Mar 2003

    Posts: 1,988

    Location: Swansea

    doesnt everyone hate the teams thats doing well?

    Used to be Man U for a long time.. then Arsenal had a year of it.. Liverpool won a few things but now its Chelseas turn because they are winners.

    Locally where im from Swansea v Cardiff carries a huge rivalry and almost as much as Swansea v Millwall does.. strange.
     
  17. Davey_Pitch

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 17,926

    Location: Liverpool, UK

    Without doubt. I've been at a derby before when a Liverpool fan had gotten into the Everton end, sat right next to me. When Liverpool went 1-0 up he jumped up and cheered and no-one did a thing. When we equalised we all jumped up and cheered, and he did nothing (though he was a little out-numbered tbh). You'll get Everton and Liverpool fans walking home together after a derby discussing the get, ribbing each other, and it hardly ever gets violent (I saw hardly ever as you get nutcases at every game, local derby or otherwise). It's probably the most friendly local rivalry that I can think of, and I much prefer it that way.
     
  18. Big Kev

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 17,715

    Location: Ashburton Grove

    2. To the fans of Arsenal / Spurs , Everton / Liverpool , United / Citeh , etc.
    You play alot of "derbys" in a league season - particular London and Lancashire clubs.

    Do you feel this gives you a disadvantage or an edge?

    I think it's a disadvantage really, too much pride at stake.

    Do you HATE your rivals ?

    I hate them more than anything else in the universe, a feeling that will never diminish with age!!!!

    In the teams I gave above there is currently a supremely dominant side in each city.

    Yes, ARSENAL!!!

    Does the hatred turn into pity for the less fortunate side?

    NEVER, the worse they do, the more we love it!!!

    Do you feel the atmosphere between supporters is more at ease because you are living amongst the enemy?

    I don't really see that many of them, which is a result. ;)

    Do you think regional pride still has a place in the modern game or is this being eroded away as much as anything else nowadays?

    I think regional pride will always be there.
     
  19. mad_allan

    Mobster

    Joined: 17 Dec 2003

    Posts: 3,219

    Location: Peterborough

    For now - we are getting stronger ;)
     
  20. Spud21

    Mobster

    Joined: 11 Nov 2002

    Posts: 4,552

    Location: Bristol


    Everything was more voilent in the 80's (when it comes to football anyway)

    I'm the same as Karl when it cmes to the local rivalry between City and Rovers, don't really care, i used to but then i lost all respect for them as rivals when they managed to bring a poultry 1,500 fans the few miles to Ashton Gate a few years ago (our away end can hold a max of 5,500, but with segregation it's about 4,000. From that point onwards to me they ceased to be rivals worth anything but laughing at their plight. Even when i did care the rivalry went no further than friendly banter except for the 90 minutes when we were plaing them. But i never really hated Rovers.

    Cardiff on the other hand are a different matter, again outside games it's friendly banter at most, but during games, especially away the vitriol between the fans is far in excess of what i saw between us and Rovers, standing in that little part of the ground being pelted with coins from the fans in the home part of the stand and seeing bottles of a dubious yellowish liquid (it wasn't Fanta) flying between the two sets of fans between the grandstand and the away end, kinda breeds a little dislike, then to go 1-0 down and have the cardiff fans who are no more than 6 foot away from you on the other side of the fence hurling abuse and objects at you, then to score 3 in 6 minutes, and to find yourself clinging onto the fense screaming every profanity under the sun at the people on the other side, is a very stange expirence.

    Outside the games i wish any club all the best and i couldn't care less if Cardiff won every single game they played, but for the 90 minutes when we are playing them i despise them with a vile passion, i always maintain my sense of perspective that it is just a game, and would never hurt someone because of football, but i have no problem shouting abuse at them, as at the end of the day unless it's rascist then it is just banter and does no harm to anyone.