Looking for a 21"+ CRT for gaming

Bubo · 28 Mar 2007 at 13:06

I'm not so sure 120Hz tfts will make any difference if you want to play with Vsync off, you are bound to still get tearing and I bet it will be just as annoying as tearing on 60Hz screens now. As you say it will only be useful if you can play at full res at 120fps all the time and therefore have vsync on, but since your graphics struggles to give 60 now I doubt you'll get any benefit from a 120Hz tft.

Duff-Man · 28 Mar 2007 at 13:23

Bubo said:
I'm not so sure 120Hz tfts will make any difference if you want to play with Vsync off, you are bound to still get tearing and I bet it will be just as annoying as tearing on 60Hz screens now. As you say it will only be useful if you can play at full res at 120fps all the time and therefore have vsync on, but since your graphics struggles to give 60 now I doubt you'll get any benefit from a 120Hz tft.

Even with vsync on, 120Hz will help. When the output framerate drops below 60, the shown framerate will sink to 40 rather than 30 (since it can output to integer divisions of the maximum framerate, and 40 = 120/3). Still annoying, but less so than dropping to 30.

Playing without vsync should make tearing much less noticble with 120Hz monitors though, like on a CRT. At 60 or 75Hz tearing is extremely annoying and very noticable. At 85Hz it's much improved. As you rise to 100Hz it's only really noticable if you look hard for it while strafing, or go into a region of strobe-lighting. I don't see why the same shouldn't be true with a 120Hz TFT?

mathesar · 28 Mar 2007 at 14:12

Duff-Man said:
Even with vsync on, 120Hz will help. When the output framerate drops below 60, the shown framerate will sink to 40 rather than 30 (since it can output to integer divisions of the maximum framerate, and 40 = 120/3). Still annoying, but less so than dropping to 30.

Playing without vsync should make tearing much less noticble with 120Hz monitors though, like on a CRT. At 60 or 75Hz tearing is extremely annoying and very noticable. At 85Hz it's much improved. As you rise to 100Hz it's only really noticable if you look hard for it while strafing, or go into a region of strobe-lighting. I don't see why the same shouldn't be true with a 120Hz TFT?

Because of the way LCDs draw each frame it somehow makes the tearing effect worse than a CRT , I noticed this when comparing my CRT & LCD side by side with both set at 60hz , the tearing was noticably worse on the LCD.

Bubo · 28 Mar 2007 at 16:33

mathesar said:
Because of the way LCDs draw each frame it somehow makes the tearing effect worse than a CRT , I noticed this when comparing my CRT & LCD side by side with both set at 60hz , the tearing was noticably worse on the LCD.

Thats what I thought. I think its also because the vertical lines are much more defined on a tft than a CRT therefore you spot vertical tearing much easier, I am willing to bet this will be just as visible on a 120tft. For me I can't stand anything above zero tearing. For a while I kept my Iiyama 513 pro 22" along side a viewsonic vx922, but have since got used to COD2 on the tft with vsync. So much so I have consigned the Iiyama to my crt graveyard in the back room and replaced it with the samsung 226bw everyone is raving about.

Energize · 28 Mar 2007 at 17:13

Duff-Man said:
Tell me how to avoid tearing without enabling vsync, and I'll be the first to jump onto a nice new 24" TFT

Triple or quad buffering using a free 3rd party app.

Duff-Man · 28 Mar 2007 at 17:19

Energize said:
Triple or quad buffering using a free 3rd party app.

Do you have a link / name for one of these programs?!

I would very much like to get my greasy hands on one...

Energize · 28 Mar 2007 at 17:24

DX Tweaker

JeffyB · 29 Mar 2007 at 16:47

Just a heads up for duff-man the 7.3 cats hid my max refresh rates so had to set it manully without the "hide modes that this monitor cannot display" box ticked in adv display options > monitor

edit: your running a 8800 lol ignore then

Duff-Man · 29 Mar 2007 at 18:06

Okay, so the monitor came today.

Seems great, though I'm having trouble installing the driver. I got the driver from the compaq website, and ran their install utility. The monitor still comes up as 'default monitor', even though I have access to all the refresh rates etc. I tried installing the .inf file manually, but unfortunately no effect.

Any help / suggestions JeffyB?!

So, why do I need to install the drivers at all if I have access to all the resolutions and refresh rates? Well, I can access (say) 120Hz at 1600*1200 or 85Hz at 2048*1526 no problems in windows. But, if I leave the monitor in these modes and reboot, I get an "out of signal range" message. Most annoying, as the monitor is clearly capable of doing these modes...

On a side note, is there any way to change preset refresh rates in safe-mode? So far I've had to uninstall-reinstall the video drivers, but I'm sure there must be an easier way...

bobert50 · 29 Mar 2007 at 21:35

Please post back regarding driver issues. Very tempted to get one myself. Either this or an fw900 crt 24" monster. What other monitors are capable of 120hz @ 1600 x 1200 ? I wish i'd known years ago i've been missing out

JeffyB · 29 Mar 2007 at 23:01

Mine didn't immeadiately show up after installign the monitor drivers either, i think you have to reinstall your graphics card drivers after the monitor drivers, then it should all be ok.

Duff-Man · 29 Mar 2007 at 23:26

JeffyB said:
Mine didn't immeadiately show up after installign the monitor drivers either, i think you have to reinstall your graphics card drivers after the monitor drivers, then it should all be ok.

Already done that, unfortunately.

Nevermind, it starts windows at 1600*1200 100Hz, which is what I was after originally.

bobert50 · 30 Mar 2007 at 11:05

Probably worth trying a bit more for 120hz if its possibly something obvious!

l33t-krew · 30 Mar 2007 at 12:35

Lol. I dont know how anyone can stay on CRT anymore.

Of course it is a personal choice so hey go with what you want. But I just can see what all the fuss is about.

A good quality Flatscreen is of high enough quality to set you by.

Just my opinion

(viewing on a Dell 2407wfp)

bobert50 · 30 Mar 2007 at 14:17

its just a first person shooter thing. FPS games on TFT's = arrrrggh

JeffyB · 31 Mar 2007 at 00:41

l33t-krew said:
Lol. I dont know how anyone can stay on CRT anymore.

Of course it is a personal choice so hey go with what you want. But I just can see what all the fuss is about.

A good quality Flatscreen is of high enough quality to set you by.

Just my opinion

(viewing on a Dell 2407wfp)

I still prefer my crt and have played on a 24 inch dell at native res. Imo tft's cannot beat the image quality and response of a crt ..yet and i'm not shelling out £500 on a tft that is worse than my current screen. If space isn't an issue why choose anything less than a top end crt?

mathesar · 31 Mar 2007 at 03:28

I have a CRT & LCD and honestly prefer the CRT for any media / movies / gaming , The LCD is great for browsing the web tho.

Also my CRT is a 24" Widescreen which doesnt hurt either

Sony FW900 CRT & NEC 20WMGX2 LCD (my camera's flash messed up the image quality on the monitors)

Sir Random · 31 Mar 2007 at 03:41

I recently moved from a Dell 21" CRT to a Dell 2407WFP.

Having read countless posts about how LCD quality/speed can't match a CRT for gaming, I prepared myself for some loss in picture quality, and slight lag in mouse movement.

Boy, was I worrying for nothing

. The 2407 is absolutely gorgeous, with rich colours and a constantly pixel-perfect display. No trace of lag, even in the fastest FPS games, it makes gaming feel like your at the movies

.

I know some LCDs don't quite match up to CRTs, I've seen plenty of threads about TN panels with backlight bleed and uneven colours, but the 2407 is better than any CRT I've ever seen.

mathesar · 31 Mar 2007 at 04:40

Sir Random said:
I recently moved from a Dell 21" CRT to a Dell 2407WFP.

Having read countless posts about how LCD quality/speed can't match a CRT for gaming, I prepared myself for some loss in picture quality, and slight lag in mouse movement.

Boy, was I worrying for nothing . The 2407 is absolutely gorgeous, with rich colours and a constantly pixel-perfect display. No trace of lag, even in the fastest FPS games, it makes gaming feel like your at the movies .

I know some LCDs don't quite match up to CRTs, I've seen plenty of threads about TN panels with backlight bleed and uneven colours, but the 2407 is better than any CRT I've ever seen.

Odd I had the completely opposite experience with a 2407FPW .. Perhaps it depends which CRT you're comparing it to. there's also this article which compares input lag on various lcd models: http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-2/lcds-images-delayed-compared-to-crts-yes.html

Duff-Man · 31 Mar 2007 at 07:05

Sir Random said:
I recently moved from a Dell 21" CRT to a Dell 2407WFP.

Having read countless posts about how LCD quality/speed can't match a CRT for gaming, I prepared myself for some loss in picture quality, and slight lag in mouse movement.

Boy, was I worrying for nothing . The 2407 is absolutely gorgeous, with rich colours and a constantly pixel-perfect display. No trace of lag, even in the fastest FPS games, it makes gaming feel like your at the movies .

I know some LCDs don't quite match up to CRTs, I've seen plenty of threads about TN panels with backlight bleed and uneven colours, but the 2407 is better than any CRT I've ever seen.

Lag doesn't bother me. Neither does ghosting or any of the other often-given reasons for avoiding LCDs for gaming.

For me, it's tearing - pure and simple. At the 60hz LCD refresh you need vsync to get around it and as I've said a few times in this thread, not only does it limit the framerate but the discrete jumps in framerate really kill the illusion of motion in FPS games.

LCDs win hands down for web browsing / word processing / programming etc though. I use one at work, and am considering one for when I work at home...