Looking for some advice on a home cinema setup

[Brumboy]

Hi all,

I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to audio so I'm hoping I can get some advice from you guys!

I'm in the process of setting up a projector & screen in my living room. The screen is going by the main window in the room where the current TV setup is (with a basic 2:1 sound system).

The project will be mounted above the sofa on the wall opposite.

I'm not a fan of cables..so is there a reasonable audio setup for my home cinema that is affordable (around £500) and limits the amount of cables going around the living room?

I do like the idea of a soundbar but I believe they're not very popular!

Thank you

 

[Brumboy]

Soundbars are very popular, far more popular than separates for home AV these days I would guess.

Yeah I know quite a few people with them and they are tempting! Just looking at all the options available at the moment

 

[Brumboy]

For £500 you'll be looking at a wireless soundbar. But you'll need power to the speakers, or if they're rechargable, need to recharge them.
Forget good quality seperates, 5.1, and a AVR for £500.

Possible to get a ok stereo system for £500, and since front wall/two speakers minimal cables and routing. That'll have superior sound quality to a soundbar, but won't have the rear surround FX and panning of a 5.1 AVR/soundbar setup. But it'll allow you upgrade or add as needed, ie to go from stereo to 2.1/2.2, or replace/add a AVR to move to proper seperates.

But at £500 surround just get a soundbar. They're ok but generally the sub is the weak area, usually just cheap and nasty boom boxes, 8" woofer, 40hz porting etc..

I've listened to a Q Acoustics 2.1 soundbar, I found it very impressive for the price, as long as turn down the sub and I would be perfectly happy with that in a bedroom system.

Best to go richer sounds and have a demo of a soundbar and a budget 5.1 speaker /avr, and ask what cabling is needed for both.

I thought so! I just saw the new Sony Wireless Speakers for £2.5k

That's an option for sure but as you said no rear surround & cables will be required which is something I'd like to avoid if possible.

Some soundbars come with a wireless subwoofer so that's an option? There are a lot to choose from on Richer Sounds. Here are some I've seen, any of these stand out?:

Sonos Beam (Gen 2) - this doesn't have a subwoofer though but it has good reviews

Yamaha SR-C30A (Black)

Shop for Yamaha SR-C30A (Black) Soundbar with Richer Sounds for expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

Denon DHT-S416 (Black)

Shop for Denon DHT-S416 (Black) Soundbar with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

Philips TAB8507B

Shop for Philips TAB8507B 3.1ch Soundbar with Wireless Subwoofer with Richer Sounds for expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

I don't know enough to see which one of the above is best! Any input would be very helpful to me and other people!

 

[Brumboy]

if those Subwoofers are wireless they'll need a power cable. So what's the big deal with a extra RCA-RCA cable, if you've got a mains cable? Also the issue is have to use the matching sub. Then if you want a second sub, you won't be able to do that.

All of those will be a upgrade on the stock flat panel speakers. As I said it's the sub that will be the weakest link, they're just boom boxes, and you're stuck with it.

Try and get one with standard sub pre out on the soundbar, that way you have the option to choose whatever active sub you like.

best and have have a demo.

So you're saying just go with a standard 2:1 setup? Sorry bit confused! I guess it does make sense.

I'll look to see what soundbars offer a sub pre out. Is that the name of the output?

 

[Brumboy]

If you're looking at lower end soundbars like those you linked, you might well be better served with a pair of stereo speakers and a half decent AMP.

It depends on the space you have tbh, the lower end soundbars are often quite poor and even those with subs will lack the range of audio you'd get from a proper 2.0 setup.

You should be able to fit in some good bookshelf or potentially even floorstanders and an AMP at that price point.

Mad to think that £400 is on the lower end for soundbars.

The TV unit is 1.6M in width with a 55 inch TV on it. I already have a very cheap 2:1 setup connected to the TV. So I want to replace it so thought I could go the soundbar route for simplicity but it seems as though a 2:1 setup for the same price as the soundbars above would be a much better option and give me the freedom to add to it if required. So I understand that totally.

Are there 2:1 setups that are Dolby Atmos or provide some kind of surround sound? As that's what I would really like if possible

 

[Brumboy]

I'm just offering options. Go and have a demo of

Budget stereo system
Soundbar
Budget AVR/5.1 speaker system

If music is important than a soundbar "will do" and have mediocre to average sound quality. Determine if the better SQ is worth it. If you live in the North West, there is a the show in a next week at cranage hall.

Each have pros and cons.

Also if you get a 2.0 system now with your budget, get the best 2.0 system you can now, then you can add a subwoofer later as you save up funds. Determine what sub you need. Ie would a BK XLS200 be ok? Better finish, etc. Or anything else active sub.

Yeah I understand thank you for your input you've been very helpful.

Music is not a priority, I just want a good sound system to complete the home cinema experience, ideally with Dolby Atmos/surround sound.

What 2:1 setup do you recommend for about £300-£400?

 

[Brumboy]

There are some genuinely decent soundbars, but those at the level you're looking at are generally not much better than TV audio in my opinion, and when you're spending a few hundred quid I think that it's a bit of a waste unless you're really strapped for space.

The 2.1/3.1 "atmos" soundbars usually use some sort of software to emulate surround, the effects can be hit and miss but usually closer toward the miss side compared to having the necessary physical speakers.

The Wharfedale speakers I recommended are floorstanding and would offer much better sound at £250-300, you should be able to come in under £500 with an AMP on top and then it's just the wires at the back connecting the three items to your output device. Some might argue needing a dedicated DAC in the chain, but tbh to start with you should be fine using whatever device you're feeding the projector content from.

I helped a friend in a similar situation to you a few months back, I managed to get him a set of Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf speakers (second hand, locally) for £60 and a LEPY MINI AMP for £30. Suffice it to say, they absolutely blew away the soundbars he was looking at which were about on par with the above.

Got you, that makes sense thanks for explaining.

Wharfedale Diamond 230? Holy moly those are almost 1M in height? Haha are there anything like..half the height lol I live in a semi detached house (although there is a "soundproof" wall connecting the properties but still). I have to be somewhat conscious of the volume.

I think speakers like the above are overkill to be honest!

Very cool they look like very good speakers. Now I'm looking at 2:1 setups (ideally small speakers).

 

[Brumboy]

Ok I think I understand now. Stupid question but those pair of speakers, do they deliver any bass at all? Would they be ok to use in the meantime before I get a sub?

And speaking of amps (please bare in mind I'm a complete novice with audio) I can connect the amp to a FireStick for example with bluetooth and there would be minimal audio delay?

That is a good deal, but that amp is £320 alone on another site, isn't that a bit overkill for my setup? If I can get a decent amp, 2 speakers and 1 sub for under £500 I would be very happy.

 

[Brumboy]

You said not interested in music.

If a home theatre system doesn't do music good then it's not good. Boom and all tizz, poor stereo imaging.

I would bet a small amp and speakers will sound better than those soundbars


£140 absolute bargain. I had the smaller ones 9.0 nice speamerd

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Bookshelf Speakers (Pair), Walnut at AV.com

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Bookshelf Speakers (Pair), Walnut at AV.com

www.av.com

Yeah true. Those speakers seem to be very well rated. So those are on the shortlist for sure! Making progress!

Thank you

 

[Brumboy]

Don't waste your money on budget towers. They'll be cheap and nasty.

Good towers will cost. Better to go standmounts.

I'm using towers but they aren't cheap and those 230 are tiny compared ..hah

Yeah ideally I would like my setup to last as long as possible. It's an investment in a way I guess.

 

[Brumboy]

Wimp amp.

WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier, Space Grey at AV.com

WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier, Space Grey at AV.com

www.av.com

That will power the speakers, has sub out and even has bass management and room EQ!

Plus has digital inputs arc and optical so just output audio from your TV into that.

Plus have one of the best streamers out there.

Sorry I think I didn't mention it before but the projector is currently connected to a FireStick so it would be connected to the amp with bluetooth. Does that make any difference or cause issues?

And I know that is a good model but is there anything around the £150-£200 mark? It would literally just need to be connected to the FireStick as the projector has basically replaced the TV now, we use it all the time.

 

[Brumboy]

Those speakers go down to about 60hz. You will need a sub for movies. Buy that later or get own preference.

A poor quality sub can ruin a system . I'd recommend have no sub than a boom box.

Connect fire stick to your TV hdmi socket. Then the TV sends audio out into the wiim amp.

That wiim is pretty good value tbh. And good base system. Yeah a cheap mini d amp will be ok but doesn't have remote, hdmi arc input, bass management, streamer. Plus with subwoofer bass management it's all ready. Add a sub, enable sub out in the wiimp amp, it the diverts low bass from the speakrs to the sub.

Watch review of the wiim amp. If I needed a small system that's the amp I'd get .

I have a AV pre power 9.4.4 system fyi.

I think the wiim amp has BT support. But limiting in sound quality. Everything wireless... :/

I'm not sure how you would integrate projector into wiim amp.

Fire stick optical out into wiim amp?

Ok gotcha mate. Don't cheap out on a sub!

Yeah it seems like a great piece of kit, I just didn't expect to be looking at £300+ amps that's all, quite shocked! I thought I'd be spending £300 all in. Can I add 2 extra satellite speakers to this to make it a 5.1?

So BT has inferior sound quality to wired?

I have an update - just had a chat with the Mrs and now she said she doesn't mind having a 5.1 setup (which speakers mounted on the wall behind the sofa). So I guess this changes everything? Sorry lol

They do, and you'll be able to add a subwoofer to them if needed.

That said, even without a dedicated sub, they'll still offer better lower end than cheaper soundbars with those wireless subs they tend to have.

If you really want the convenience of a soundbar, you might luck out on a sale on something along the lines of a Samsung Q930C.

That's good to know. So I could get a pair of speakers like those Diamond ones with an amp and use that as a decent starting point. Then assess from there.

I honestly like the idea of a soundbar but as I mentioned above the Mrs now wants a 5.1 setup (I thought she didn't want monitors stuck on the wall because it looks messy but she wants the home cinema experience too)

Firestick doesn't have optical out.
So you would plug firestick into the projector HDMI input. Optical out from the projector, into the wiim amp.

Ignoring that issue for now, even if you bought a soundbar I don't know how you'd transmit audio from the projector into the soundbar (wirelessly)

Understood! Optical out is better than BT. At the moment I have a ghetto setup of connecting the FireStick to a bluetooth transmitter which is connected to the speakers. It does work to be fair but maybe not the most optimal.

Brummie? Not far, one hour

De Vere Cranage Estate

21st-century style complements rich heritage at this iconic Cheshire hotel.

www.devere.co.uk

Worth it, just to see, yeah high end kit and mostly stereo there, but hundreds of brands, and throwing you into deep end but worthwhile hearing a few systems, get an idea of sound signature you like so if you say "I like ear bleeding bright harsh sounding speakers" then a hifi shop hands you klipsch haha

Yeah I live near Dudley so that may be interesting to go too thanks for linking that!

I actually know the seller of this Sennheiser Ambeo plus if you don't mind a trip to pick it up as he doesn't have the box anymore. However, it's a very good device and performs miles better than any other soundbar (bar the Max) if you just want standalone. It's also an absolute steal at this price.

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Although a mega deal I'm not keen on travelling 4 hours sorry lol

wow bargain

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Those look very smart!

 

[Brumboy]

Cinema hosted at ImgBB

Image Cinema hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

So excuse the crappy drawing, art is not my strongest skill..

The red dots are the speakers. Square box the sub.

Would that work? I could run the speaker cables to the rear speakers along the skirting board and use the cable covers. Then run it up the corner of the walls then out a few inches into the speakers which are mounted to the wall?

I have also seen 5.1 packages that have 2 speakers that are wireless so this could be another option?

I didn't expect the Mrs to be on board with this to be honest..

 

[Brumboy]

Wiim amp is 2.1 . It's a DAC, streamer, amp in one . It won't support anything more than that.

If you want 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 5.1 etc you'll need AVR.

AVR's have shot up in price a lot I remember budget AVR's used to be £150. Now they're £400 or so

Denon AVR-S660H (Black)

Shop for Denon AVR-S660H (Black) AV Receiver with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

AVR's have HDMI inputs, outputs, multi channel amplifier, subwoofer(s) output, and support for more than 2.1 speakers, decoding for multi channel for movies, DTS X, atmos, Dolby and DTS HD etc.

Blimey! So even with the 5.1 packages I've seen I still need an AVR then? I didn't know that. I'm a noob lol

Wow a lot of features then. £400 though, that puts a setup at about £1000? Is there not a budget friendly option? Sheesh!

 

[Brumboy]

oh forget atmos at your budget. If you do want Atmos you'd need something like this

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 HCP 5.1.2 Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 HCP 5.1.2 Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

www.av.com

to this

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 HCP 7.1.4 Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 HCP 7.1.4 Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

www.av.com

And that is (good) budget system.

With a suitable AVR with the required number of amplification channels. It gets a bit complicated as some AVR's don't have enough channels so you would need a amplifier, or you just use 5.1.2 and use it re assigns the "7" to the heights.

Would be good idea to have a few demos, speaker , sub and AVR brands

Thank you, what about this one?:

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 5.1 Home Cinema Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 5.1 Home Cinema Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

www.av.com

Then I'd need an AVR for that setup?

It's over double what I was expecting to spend. I think it's overkill to be honest. I didn't realise it was all so expensive, bit of a bummer really.

With my puny budget of £500 would I just have to settle for a 2.1 setup with an amp/avr and then expand it later?

 

[Brumboy]

Correct. Amplifier has the transisters, pre amp, inputs, outputs, HDMI in and out.

passive Speakers on their own are just dumb devices, you need an amplifier.

You could just get a cheap second hand AVR/5.1 for now, scour gumtree/facebook, I've seen some bargains that'll do...unless you need HDMI 2.1 VRR 120hz 4K...then that means you can't buy a older AVR..you'd need latest gen models.

I have learned a lot, I honestly appreciate the time you're taking to explain things, it must be annoying having to explain simple things haha. Perhaps I should watch a video about audio equipment to increase my knowledge. Saves you typing out!

I have never bought anything 2nd hand, especially tech equipment. Is it ok to buy things from those places? I'd be worried about buying faulty equipment etc.

No the projector is 4k/60hz only. So no need for that.

 

[Brumboy]

Yes that's a good one yes you'll need a avr.

How about just get something cheap, second hand Yamaha AVR, even if you just use it for a year or two, £50

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"No the projector is 4k/60hz only. So no need for that."

ah that bumps price up, so you need HDMI 2.0. If it were 1080p then that £50 AVR above will do.

Alright then, I'll have to think a lot more about this it looks like. It does seem like 5.1 is out of the question though, which is fine although I was getting excited as the prospect of experiencing surround sound at home!

Maybe I will just go for the combination you initially suggested with the Diamond speakers and the WiiM AMP. If I did that - could I buy another pair of the Diamond speakers and add them to the setup? And then sell the WiiM AMP and buy one that supports 5.1. Or is there a budget friendly amp that supports 5.1 that I could buy now instead?

Also the size of the speakers are all a lot larger than I expected. I don't suppose there's some that are a lot smaller but still pack a decent punch?

 

[Brumboy]

av forums is probably best safest place, have a look here

Forum list

Home Entertainment resource for home cinema, movies, games and gadgets news, reviews, articles and forums

www.avforums.com

Buying second hand is generally fine, most of my stuff is second hand- I'd never have bought some of the gear at the new price (top of the range models)

You'll need things like speaker cable, buy a reel, 2.5mm3, banana plugs, hdmi cables, RCA stereo, subwoofer RCA,optical/coaxial as needed

AVR's and subs can be more risky, they have electronics and higher chance to fail. Speakers can last decades, if they're treated right.

Interesting.

Thank you, it's like going into a rabbit hole now..learning more and more. My head is hurting!

Yeah my dad has speakers that are older than me (over 30..) that he uses almost daily.

Now I'm interested to see your home cinema setup

 

[Brumboy]

If you bought the Wiim amp, it will only support stereo speakers and a subwoofer, you can't have it 4.1 or anything like that. yes you can sell the wiim amp, or the speakers as needed, but it would just make sense to re-use them, ie move the wiim to bedroom etc, buy a AVR, buy another pair of 9.1 for rears, center, sub etc.

AVR's have gone up unfortunately, and since you want 4K, 60hz, then means a HDMI 2.0 spec AVR, so it would have to be relatively new. Any new AVR from shops will be at least that, or HDMI 2.1

I have a old Yamaha 1080p AVR, and they're available cheap £100 second hand now,as 1080p is "out of date"

Generally you want speakers to be of a certain size. Small speakers have limited bass response, output, sensitivity. For music I'd recommend those Diamond 9.1. The Diamond 9.0 are good, but for main speakers they're too small. In a small room, with a music system you can get away without a sub.

I use speakers that have 4.5" to 6.5" midrange, and 8" bass drivers, I'd say 4.5" is too small. 5.25" is my minimum recommendation, 6.5" ideal. You can use smaller speakers for rears and atmos heights, but the L/R I wouldn't use tiny little ones.

Sensitivity means how loud the speaker is with one watt of power. Smaller speakers produce less output, compared to bigger ones, so you need a more powerful AVR, or you have to drive your amp harder. That increases the cost. For example my little speakers need 2x-3x the power of the big ones as they're lower in sensitivity.

Alright that all makes sense actually. Lots of combinations possible it seems.

Ah right that's a bummer. Better start saving up, maybe Santa will help me out!

Interesting I did not know that - lots to think about.

Thank you for explaining all this, massive help. I will do additional research as well.

But the 2.1 setup sounds like a good middle ground:

WiiM Amp, Space Grey & Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Black Hi-Fi Bundle at AV.com

WiiM Amp, Space Grey & Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Black Hi-Fi Bundle at AV.com

www.av.com

WiiM Amp Stereo Hi-Fi System Builder at AV.com

WiiM Amp Stereo Hi-Fi System Builder at AV.com

www.av.com

Not sure what the difference is between the above two though. Also would this amp be ok for my projector as I watch a lot of 4k content and you mentioned that 60hz can cause issues with some amps?

And you're saying it is possible to connect the FireStick to the amp via BT and that would work?

 

[Brumboy]

Another brand are Q acoustics. Q and Wharfedale will have warmer/natural sound. Some other brands like Focal, Dali and Klipsch will be brighter, possibly hard on the ears.

Q Acoustics 3020i Cinema Pack

The Q Acoustics 3020i 5.1 Cinema Pack combines the very best of the new 3000i Series to deliver a stunning, compact home cinema system ensuring you hear every detail at its very best from your favourite movies and music.

petertyson.co.uk

I wouldn't recommend that sub though, they're quite poor and unreliable. They have a 3010i pack with smaller fronts, but I'd recommend the 3020i instead. Bigger driver, bit more efficient, will have more impact. Don't forget stands as well.

There are hundreds of brands, so if you go cranage get and idea. They'll be mix of the major brands like Kef, etc, but there will be many lesser brands that even I didn't hear of.

That is way over my budget sorry! Appreciate the links though. I need a pay rise to afford all this