Loop order advise/sanity check

Micromecca

Micromecca

Micromecca

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Joined
15 Nov 2024
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20
Location
NE UK
Hi All

I have a MO-RA IV 400 on order, and was looking for some feedback on my plan to integrate this into my current setup.
I currently have an EK CPU & GPU Block (with active back plate), an FLT 240 w/D5 pump and a single thick (X series) 420 rad.

Whilst the above generally works fine and stays relatively cool, longer gaming session can push the temps up, so I have ordered the MO-RA IV.
My doubts are generally around loop order and pump requirements. I also have a second EK FLT w/D5 pump and was planning to attach both to the MO-RA inlet/outlet respectively, will this be enough to keep a decent flow rate through this kit?
Additionally, should I keep the X420 rad in the loop as its already fixed to my Thermaltake Core P5 case? It could fit pretty much anywhere into the loop, even between the CPU & GPU block. Would this serve a purpose, or would it just be pointless overkill?

All thoughts welcome

cheers
M
 
The coolant temp is generally around 32-35c after an hour or so, but on occasion, particularly after gaming for quite a few hours it can hit 45c+ I tend to stop playing at that point and let it cool down a bit.
It doesn't help that my OH loves to have the heating on full whack in the winter, so my temps are generally higher in the winter than the summer.
I really just want to get the temps as low as possible.

cheers
M
 
Loop order doesn't usually matter
It will equalise itself
Throughout the loop

Is that the new mora that can take 9 x 200mm fans
Or 16 x 140mm fans?
Wouldn't think you also need the 420mm
But it won't hurt to use it since it's there anyway

I am definitely in favour of using 2 pumps
Even if one d5 would suffice
Having 2 means a pump failure doesn't mean the pc
Is out of action

45c is kind of warm for coolant
But unless you're using petg it's probably still OK

Sounds like ambient room temperature
Will be your biggest issue
 
Mcnumpty2323 said:
Is that the new mora that can take 9 x 200mm fans
Or 16 x 140mm fans?
Wouldn't think you also need the 420mm
But it won't hurt to use it since it's there anyway

I am definitely in favour of using 2 pumps
Even if one d5 would suffice
Having 2 means a pump failure doesn't mean the pc
Is out of action

45c is kind of warm for coolant
But unless you're using petg it's probably still OK

Sounds like ambient room temperature
Will be your biggest issue
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for your input. Really good point about the dual pumps adding a form of redundancy.

It's the MO-RA IV 400 (4 x 200mm fans), it should go nicely with my Thermaltake Core case/frame as they are roughly the same size.

I agree that 45c is a bit warm (I'm using the EK ZMT 16/10 soft tubing), hence my plan.
Whilst the ambient temp certainly isnt helping, the loop inevitably heats up to 40C plus over time even when its cool (windows open etc). I might end up just putting the MO-RA on the window sill and cracking the window a bit :D
 
Micromecca said:
Hey, thanks for your input. Really good point about the dual pumps adding a form of redundancy.

It's the MO-RA IV 400 (4 x 200mm fans), it should go nicely with my Thermaltake Core case/frame as they are roughly the same size.

I agree that 45c is a bit warm (I'm using the EK ZMT 16/10 soft tubing), hence my plan.
Whilst the ambient temp certainly isnt helping, the loop inevitably heats up to 40C plus over time even when its cool (windows open etc). I might end up just putting the MO-RA on the window sill and cracking the window a bit :D
Click to expand...
I am also using zmt 16/10mm
Unlike the zmt 16/11mm it's a pretty robust tubing
The 16/11mm is pretty flimsy
Weird considering its a very small size difference
But I have had both
And was surprised how much the difference was

Have you tried a bit of undervolting/lower power limit
On the gpu?
In summer my coolant reaches 40c with gaming
But this time of year it's more like 30-32c with gaming
Though I don't heat my pc room
After a few hours the pc will heat it up
In summer I Undervolt the gpu and lower power limit a bit
And got mine under the open window too
Which definitely helps
 
If the tube wall is thinner I would expect it to be less robust but not flimsy. Thats pretty surprising, is it easy to kink?

The CPU is undervolted, and all cores are restricted to 5.8, Its been like that since purchase. It doesnt require a lot of voltage so I think I got lucky however, the situation with 13/14th gen is always in the back of my mind.
I haven't undervolted the GPU, power is all default but there is a mem oc, and a slight core oc on that. I think I will see how it behaves with less voltage now though.

I bought some barrow quick disconnects on sale earlier in the week for this project, just opened them and they seem really restrictive :(
 
Micromecca said:
If the tube wall is thinner I would expect it to be less robust but not flimsy. Thats pretty surprising, is it easy to kink?

The CPU is undervolted, and all cores are restricted to 5.8, Its been like that since purchase. It doesnt require a lot of voltage so I think I got lucky however, the situation with 13/14th gen is always in the back of my mind.
I haven't undervolted the GPU, power is all default but there is a mem oc, and a slight core oc on that. I think I will see how it behaves with less voltage now though.

I bought some barrow quick disconnects on sale earlier in the week for this project, just opened them and they seem really restrictive :(
Click to expand...
The 16/11mm yeah could quite easily
Kink it if trying a tight bend

My 3080ti i can drop the power quite considerably
But not lose much performance
Makes a lot more difference to loop temperature
Than doing anything to my cpu
If i reduce it by 80 watts I lose around 75mhz
Doesn't affect the memory overclock just gpu core
And I set a voltage curve too

I had some quick disconnects before
Wish I hadn't sold them now
Very useful for removing gpu or cpu,pump,radiator etc from the loop
Mine were koolance
Looked restrictive as you say
But didn't seem to cause any flow issues at all
And I was using 4 sets in the loop
 
Going to a MORA IV should be enough without the second rad tbh. You want to heat to exit outside of the the case asap - I guess you could do mora to internal rad to dump the heat from the pump before going to CPU/GPU if it makes the loop easier.
 
Hey Pre

The thermaltake core series are not a case in the classic sense. Its more of a frame or an upright test bench, so there is no internal case heat to exhaust, its all open.
Bit messy at the moment (mid project), but for context:-

jhgkgk.jpg




I was planning to use 2 of the EK FLT tanks w/D5 pumps (I also have an FLT 120) connected to the inlet/outlet of the MO-RA as I understand there is a considerable amount of distance to travel inside the rad.
Is there a better way to do this?
 
Ah OK. Honestly the order doesn't make too much difference - pump > CPU/GPU > MORA4/2nd rad is probably going to be least problematic depending on where you are placing the MORA - especially if you are planning to use QDCs.
 
Cheers Pre, both you and Mcnumpty have put my mind at rest.

Do you know of any quick disconnects that don't restrict flow?
I ordered some Barrow TZKMF-V2 and they are very restrictive. So much so that it takes effort to even blow through them.

​

 
Micromecca said:
I ordered some Barrow TZKMF-V2 and they are very restrictive. So much so that it takes effort to even blow through them.

​

Click to expand...

Sincere apologies if this sounds like an absolutely Noddy thing to ask, but you did connect the male and female quick connect fittings together for your blow test? Something sounds wrong if there is any resistance to you blowing through them.

Anyway, if you are going with the large external rad set up with quick connects I would definitely be looking to take advantage of any nearby window sills. There should be no reason to put pumps either side of the rad if you are going to be using two pumps, the flow should be the same if they are right next to each other, or if they are spaced out in the loop. If you do need to space them out though due to where you can fit them, them my tip would be to power up one of the pumps when you are initially filling/priming, so the other pump can't be running dry at any point while filling. Once full you can power it up.

When I eventually put my rig back together I am seriously considering going with an external rad box this time, and on top of that putting the rad box in the room next door to my computer room by going under the floorboards where the wall is. I get to heat that other room up and have near silence in my main room, so will also be using quick disconnects for this too.
 
Bubo said:
Sincere apologies if this sounds like an absolutely Noddy thing to ask, but you did connect the male and female quick connect fittings together for your blow test?
Click to expand...

Ha Yes, they were coupled at the time of the test, I do understand why you would ask though, I've seen people do sillier things.
I've been doing a bit of research this morning and most of the comments regarding these specific QD's is that they are very restrictive. Koolance QD4 seem to have the best reviews, so I might get those ordered today, unless some kind soul can suggest something better.

I am definitely leaning towards the window sill option, and have ordered plenty of tubing in case I do go down this route. Thanks for the tip regarding the order of powering up the pumps during filling, I was already wondering what the best way to do this was.

The pump order I was planning on using was simply to make it easy on myself, I was going to move the FLT 240 up, and pop the 120 in below it. The positioning of everything then just naturally leans towards that order.
I am surprised to hear that 2 pumps directly in series would work just as well though, rather than spacing them out about 50% of the way around the loop.

I love your idea of putting the rad in another room, if only I had a spare room. The fan and pump noise doesn't bother me though to be honest, I always have headphones on.

Why is your rig out of commission, are you working on upgrades too?


cheers
M
 
Micromecca said:
I am surprised to hear that 2 pumps directly in series would work just as well though, rather than spacing them out about 50% of the way around the loop.

I love your idea of putting the rad in another room, if only I had a spare room. The fan and pump noise doesn't bother me though to be honest, I always have headphones on.

Why is your rig out of commission, are you working on upgrades too?


cheers
M
Click to expand...

Think of it as a couple of batteries in an electrical circuit. The electrical current is the equivalent of water flow, and the battery voltages are the equivalent of the pump head an individual pump can generate. You can put the batteries directly in series or separate them out in the circuit (as long as still effectively in series), and you will get the same current no matter what. You will get different instantaneous presures(voltages) at different points for sure, but the flow rate(current) will be the same everywhere. if in series. Since the current is simply I = V/R, with R being the total resistance of the whole circuit. Fluid dynamics is very very similar in how it behaves compared to an electrical circuit. There are more factors at play of course but it is basically the same based in the fundamental principal that you can only have one flow rate in any loop with everything in series.

I dismantled my rig over 2 years ago and made the fateful mistake of switching to my gaming laptop, which I hardly ever used up until that point, while I was "rebuilding". I have recently sold the brand new 5900X, X570 mobo and DDR4 ram I bought at the time and replaced it with 7800X3D, X670 and DDR5, though it has been a month and I still haven't out it together. Maybe when I have a break at Christmas.
 
Bubo said:
Think of it as a couple of batteries in an electrical circuit.......
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the thorough explanation. My take from this is that it really doesn't matter when I place the pumps, and can just go with the most convenient option which is really good to know.

Sounds like yours is going to be a great build, what GPU are you planning on going with? Nvidia 5000 series might be available by the time you get your arse into gear :cry:
 
If you have the parts to put a normal pump top on one of you D5's then I would just put the pump itself in a convenient location to keep it compact and out of the way, there is no real need to have two reservoirs in a typical loop. Though if the FLT didn't come with the original D5 top then you are limited, unless you go buy a top for it.

Regards my rig GPU, I am planning on still going with the 3080ti I had at the time. Believe it or not I have only just got round to fitting the water block to it that I bought 2 years ago. So at least that is out of the way. You've got to understand that I am really very lazy. Though tbh I am fairly certain that I am now in the camp that any new GPU upgrade will be left on air, unless the noise becomes a problem. Going forwards it is likely to be CPU only for me with water cooling.
 
Bubo said:
if the FLT didn't come with the original D5 top then you are limited...
Click to expand...

This exactly, it's purely because I already have the parts, and thought it would 'match' everything else.

You may be lazy mate, but at least your honest about it!
I had a 3080ti for a while, great card for 1440P.
 
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