Losing weight the right way?

I've know Morba a while. :)

I don't bother with bulking and cutting, I never really felt the need. However pros, do it, because it's easier, and they can dedicate a lot of time and money to doing it. As non competing person, I just like being able to develop strength and muscle size while keeping lean. In the past few years I've gone from 85kg to 102kg whilst remaining relatively lean and vascular. It takes time, a lot of effort on diet, and a lot of hard work in the gym.

You really don't have to do bulk and cut phases, but people who do (typically pros) do it because they have short periods of time to put on as much muscle mass as they can. Even more so "assisted" pros.

If you're willing to put the time and effort in, you really don't need to go for all out bulks and cuts. Sure at the moment I'm trying to trim a little bit, as carrying 102kg around in the summer does get a bit warm, but I'm still mid/mid high teens in terms of bodyfat. Just as I was several years ago. However, I still train the same, I just tweak my hormonal balance via my diet pattern a bit differently, add a few different bits in between my training (like HIIT).
 
But you don't know me, so how can you comment on who knows more? ;)

I notice that Morba has 350 posts in GordyR's sticky but not once does he (or you) point out that he is incorrect. Someone should correct his guide then since it's been up there for 5 years.

GordyR said:
Losing fat while gaining muscle

Again it doesn’t really happen as such. As a beginner it is possible for the first month or so of beginning to exercise. Other than that forget it unless you are taking a lot of illegal substances. To gain muscle you have to eat more calories than your body consumes in any given period. This will inevitably lead to some fat gain.
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GordyR said:
Higher reps + Light weight = Muscle toning

The word tone is banned from my vocabulary. There is no such thing. The next person to tell me that they just want to “tone” their muscles I will personally hunt down and beat with a stick.
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His guide is a basic beginner's guide, done a long time ago. Gordon knows some stuff, but not everything (not that anyone is claiming that he or I, or anyone does).

His comments are valid to an extent, but not 100% accurate. I'm not going to bastardise his OP that he put a lot of effort in because it serves as a decent guide.

If people want advanced training, diet, and other such tips, that's what the SA is for and people like you, me, Morba, Benny (to name a few) come in and help. :)
 
Freefaller said:
If people want advanced training, diet, and other such tips, that's what the SA is for and people like you, me, Morba, Benny (to name a few) come in and help. :)
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The OP is not advanced, he sounds like a beginner.


Freefaller said:
However, I still train the same, I just tweak my hormonal balance via my diet pattern a bit differently, add a few different bits in between my training (like HIIT).
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If you are adjusting your diet then you are probably doing short bulking and cutting phases without even knowing it. Adding HIIT for a couple of weeks or so will probably create a calorie deficit so you might lose say 2kg, then as you say you adjust you diet back again and drop or lower the HIIT thus calorie surplus and so you put on some lean mass. Sounds like a mini bulk/cut set up which is what I do as well since I'm about where I want to be and only minor tweaks are needed.

The scenario for most newbies who want to "tone up" is starving themselves and going to the gym to do 5 sets of 30 bicep curls thinking that they will end up with a body like Brad Pitt.

I would be interested to see some of your resources (links?) to guides on losing bodyfat and gaining muscle at the same time. Would you mind posting them?
 
Good point about the op - but making blanket statements that gaining muscle, or keeping muscle whilst losing bodyfat is just not true. :)

I'm amazed you seem to know what my body's doing - remarkable! ;) I still do HIIT whilst gaining mass, so I don't use it exclusively to get myself a little more lean. I just do HIIT to hit the fat reserves, which is what it does rather than SS carido which is a pile of poo for someone like me. I'm not doing mini bulk/cuts I'm afraid - you've misinterpreted my post, I just "optimise" (better word) my food intake/nutrients and be more anal about what/when I eat when achieving a certain goal, by helping to use my body's natural hormonal cycles.

I agree, most newbies just want to look like someone skinny but "toned" like BP in fight club. Thing is he's tiny, and not very big at all, and all that's required for that is hitting the

I don't use many online sources, too much crap and rubbish posted online which cannot be qualified, I receive medical research journals and friends email me papers from research they do. Though I do subscribe medical journals from medical unis, a lot of them sent out e-letters and information/research data. As for bodybuilding sources I just have a lot of friends who used to compete, and/or books that have been recommended.
 
Everyone knows that you obviously know your stuff, Morba as well. Which is why I was perplexed when Morba claims that toning exists on this thread but a quick search reveals that we actually share the same opinion:

Morba said:
no. doing millions of situps will not make you lose the belly.
no, there is no miracle shake.
no, there is NO such thing as toning. You lose fat, you gain muscle. That is all.

if you want to lose the belly, burn more calories than you consume. If you want to gain a little muscle mass, consume more calories than you burn.

gordyr's sticky will be a very good read for you :]
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Morba said:
toning is a non existent thing though. it is very very very hard to lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
to do so you need to train and eat perfectly, anyone who tells you 'i am toning up' will not be the sort who will train and eat like a perfectionist.
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Perhaps he was having a bad day and just wanted to have a pop at someone on the forum :)
 
Everyone has bad days - or maybe he's changed his mind? :)

My point on "toning" is, muscle tone is a result of muscle increase and fat decrease - but people jump to use the word, "I want to tone my abs" - well that, just doesn't exist! :p

PS I wasn't seeking praise, I'm still learning lots, and do every day. I don't know everything and like to be challenged on these things as it makes me research and learn more. :) So please don't think that I'm telling you you are wrong, if you can show me that losing fat whilst maintaining or even gaining muscle mass is impossible I will absolutely entertain the idea and discuss it. :)
 
Like most people I don't like the word toning.
I got over it, you should too.

Look at the second post you quoted, says the same as I have said here, it is possible, but very hard to achieve unless it is your life.
 
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Morba said:
Like most people I don't like the word toning.
I got over it, you should too.

Look at the second post you quoted, says the same as I have said here, it is possible, but very hard to achieve unless it is your life.
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But that second post begins "toning is non existent" and goes on to say it's very very very hard to achieve and it must be your life. In the context of the thread, a beginner looking for some advice, I don't see how telling him it's possible is going to help. As you know (and has freefaller has stated) most beginners think that they can "tone their abs and arms" by doing hundreds of situps and 5kg bicep curls everyday.

I would liken it to saying to a beginner "running 100m in 10 seconds is not possible" which is true for that person and 99.99999999% of people. It only applies to those few who have been training for many years and can dedicate the time to pull it off.

It's still a dirty word to me because it still has the "light weight + high reps = toning" and spot reduction myths attached to it.
 
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Because toning is not possible. Like said in one of those posts, you lose fat or you gain muscle.
You cannot do this at precisely the same time, an exercise will not do both together.

Not really sure what your problem is.
 
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