Lostprophets Singer Facing Child Sex Charges

V-Spec said:
So I'll concede on the points I was making earlier, than I was probably wrong and arguing more on the back of the rage having read the judicial report on Watkins, rather than a measured response to the points being raised.
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Really impressed with some of the mature responses on this thread :)

For what it's worth, I'm not interested in being "right" or "winning" an argument. I just discuss with a view to increasing understanding (mine as well as others'). :)
 
schnoodles said:
Deterrence doesn't generally work with crimes of this type though. Detterence works against people who behave in a rational manner. When you're dealing with compulsive behaviour perpetrated by damaged people, they either don't connect the consequences with their actions, or else they can't exercise enough self-control to prevent those actions.
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I'm not convinced that sex abuse is actually that different from other crimes. Despite the obsession with monitoring sex offenders, they're actually less recidivist than the general prison population. Most sexual abuse against children is carried out by people who know the parents (or are the parents) when they have access and opportunity.

We're clearly not dealing with people who are deterred by consequences, or they wouldn't do it in the first place.
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Again, this is true for any crime. The key, as I noted, is that deterrence only works if criminals believe they will get caught. Society's attitudes to sex have traditional provided excellent cover for abusers.

I rather expect someone as vile as Ian Watkins would offend regardless but I don't think that means that all child sex offenders are completely immune to deterrent.
 
Mr Jack said:
I'm not convinced that sex abuse is actually that different from other crimes. Despite the obsession with monitoring sex offenders, they're actually less recidivist than the general prison population. Most sexual abuse against children is carried out by people who know the parents (or are the parents) when they have access and opportunity.
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The research I've read suggests that recidivism rates amongst sex offenders are very high. I'll try and dig it out, if I get a chance.

Again, this is true for any crime. The key, as I noted, is that deterrence only works if criminals believe they will get caught. Society's attitudes to sex have traditional provided excellent cover for abusers.
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Any vaguely rational person is bound to feel that there's a fairly high chance of getting caught if they start offending though. All it takes is for a child to repeat something in front of the right person. Although whatever way you look at it, increasing detection rates can be no bad thing.
 
Having read the posts from both Castiel and ElMarko I feel I can also add some of my own experience to this thread, I have the greatest respect for anyone who can talk about such things. I was a victim of abuse from 4 to 13, this caused me to be rebellious to a certain extent during my younger years. I had a choice in early 2009; confront my abuser in the right way or I may have the misfortune of confronting him in the wrong way and damaging my own life further. At the end of 2009 my abuser was given a life sentence with a minimum term of 7 years. The minimum term may not matter as the judge was very specific in his closing statement he actually said "if any parole board ever deems him fit for release" or something along those lines, (it was an emotional day). I did actually post in the forum's asking if anyone had experience of being a witness at the time of the case.

I couldn't possibly read the PDF that was posted by the OP, I have no words for people who have committed such crimes.
 
schnoodles said:
The research I've read suggests that recidivism rates amongst sex offenders are very high. I'll try and dig it out, if I get a chance.
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Recidivism rates among offenders are very high. Sex offenders come out comparatively lowly on the scale compared to other offenders, and offenders with adult targets tend to re-offend more than offenders with child targets. I refer you to Sample and Bray (2006) and references if you have access to it, or the conclusion section of Tewksbury et al (2012) if not.
 
Hitman_Leon said:
Having read the posts from both Castiel and ElMarko I feel I can also add some of my own experience to this thread, I have the greatest respect for anyone who can talk about such things. I was a victim of abuse from 4 to 13, this caused me to be rebellious to a certain extent during my younger years. I had a choice in early 2009; confront my abuser in the right way or I may have the misfortune of confronting him in the wrong way and damaging my own life further. At the end of 2009 my abuser was given a life sentence with a minimum term of 7 years. The minimum term may not matter as the judge was very specific in his closing statement he actually said "if any parole board ever deems him fit for release" or something along those lines, (it was an emotional day). I did actually post in the forum's asking if anyone had experience of being a witness at the time of the case.

I couldn't possibly read the PDF that was posted by the OP, I have no words for people who have committed such crimes.
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Thank you for being so open, it's a very serious subject which requires honesty & cool minds - I hope you are now as much over the experience as you can be.

While I've never experienced abuse on a personal level, I'm fully familiar with how certain serious childhood experiences shape you or can cause problems (as you say, in the case of rebellion). I didn't want to read the PDF personally either as I think I'd find it depressing too depressing to read.
 
Mr Jack said:
Recidivism rates among offenders are very high. Sex offenders come out comparatively lowly on the scale compared to other offenders, and offenders with adult targets tend to re-offend more than offenders with child targets. I refer you to Sample and Bray (2006) and references if you have access to it, or the conclusion section of Tewksbury et al (2012) if not.
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I'll have a read when I have a mo.

I guess you could argue though that the opportunities for recidivism are much smaller amongst sex offenders who've been caught. Not least because of the sex offenders' register.
 
Hitman_Leon said:
Having read the posts from both Castiel and ElMarko I feel I can also add some of my own experience to this thread, I have the greatest respect for anyone who can talk about such things. I was a victim of abuse from 4 to 13, this caused me to be rebellious to a certain extent during my younger years. I had a choice in early 2009; confront my abuser in the right way or I may have the misfortune of confronting him in the wrong way and damaging my own life further. At the end of 2009 my abuser was given a life sentence with a minimum term of 7 years. The minimum term may not matter as the judge was very specific in his closing statement he actually said "if any parole board ever deems him fit for release" or something along those lines, (it was an emotional day). I did actually post in the forum's asking if anyone had experience of being a witness at the time of the case.

I couldn't possibly read the PDF that was posted by the OP, I have no words for people who have committed such crimes.
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As elmarko said, thanks for being so open. I think the more this stuff is talked about, and the more experiences are shared and discussed openly, the less shame will be felt by survivors and the more chance we'll have of finding meaningful ways to deal with the problem.
 
schnoodles said:
I guess you could argue though that the opportunities for recidivism are much smaller amongst sex offenders who've been caught. Not least because of the sex offenders' register.
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The register seems to make little or no difference. Mind you, accessibility does seem to be a major factor. It seems that most child abusers are not the kind of sick, driven monster depicted in the media or Lollita who will create opportunities to abuse and hunt their prey but rather a kind of sad, pathetic pervert who'll abuse children because they're there and they can. When time removes the opportunity they no longer re-offend. This is, I guess, the classic "dodgy uncle".
 
elmarko said:
Thank you for being so open, it's a very serious subject which requires honesty & cool minds - I hope you are now as much over the experience as you can be.

While I've never experienced abuse on a personal level, I'm fully familiar with how certain serious childhood experiences shape you or can cause problems (as you say, in the case of rebellion). I didn't want to read the PDF personally either as I think I'd find it depressing too depressing to read.
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schnoodles said:
As elmarko said, thanks for being so open. I think the more this stuff is talked about, and the more experiences are shared and discussed openly, the less shame will be felt by survivors and the more chance we'll have of finding meaningful ways to deal with the problem.
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I have found talking about it clears it away a little, some carry shame I carry anger. System failure left me a vulnerable child; I still want to line people up and shout at them, ask them why they failed me. My abuser had been jailed for violently assaulting an 18 month old, upon his release he had no restrictions placed on him. This allowed him to be once again close to children only this time his intentions were not just violence. I hold people I know; the probation service, social services and many others responsible for this. They all knew his history; none of them stopped him from going near children, they are cowards as none of them will answer any question.

These days I just sit proud in the knowledge that I am doing the best I can for my own children. Another thing I will never understand is these people who claim the abused children because they themselves were abused. Utter rubbish; that is just an excuse, I am am as far opposite from my abuser as I could be and I am pretty sure the abuse I suffered influenced that. If someone has been hurt in some way and they know how it feels why would they choose to inflict that suffering on someone else.

I see Ian Watkins will be in Wakefield prison, same place as my abuser.
 
Hitman_Leon said:
Another thing I will never understand is these people who claim the abused children because they themselves were abused. Utter rubbish; that is just an excuse, I am am as far opposite from my abuser as I could be and I am pretty sure the abuse I suffered influenced that. If someone has been hurt in some way and they know how it feels why would they choose to inflict that suffering on someone else.
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Everyone's life circumstances are unique though. "Choice" is a matter of degree. For some, a choice is easy. For others, it is hard. Some people are so damaged that choice is nearly impossible - if not actually impossible. If a child who's been abused is destructive and violent, we don't judge them for it. Yet suddenly, when someone transitions into adulthood, we expect them to be able to exercise choice and be entirely accountable for their actions. What if people are so damaged that their ability to exercise rational choice is no better than a child's?
 
Hitman_Leon said:
Another thing I will never understand is these people who claim the abused children because they themselves were abused. Utter rubbish; that is just an excuse, I am am as far opposite from my abuser as I could be and I am pretty sure the abuse I suffered influenced that. If someone has been hurt in some way and they know how it feels why would they choose to inflict that suffering on someone else.
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The statistics tend to suggest that it does indeed have an impact, personal situation aside.
 
It's James Tomkins, a West Ham defender and his picture is on the Mirror site due to him being arrested for assaulting a copper after getting lairy in an Essex nitespot.

Absolutely nothing to do with the theme in this thread.
 
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