Low end speakers (~£50-£70) - 2.1 or 2.0?

[Purgatory]

Driver break in takes minutes, not days, and should have already been done during QA checks on the speakers before being sold.

I agree 100% with that statement. My point is that speaker break-in takes seconds or minutes, not 'many hours' as you claim, I stated this in my first reply. Also that this break-in is usually accomplished in the QA testing by the manufacturer.

Both these points I made are backed up by the article you linked.

"Required break in time for the common spider-diaphragm-surround is typically on the order of 10s of seconds"

"Quite often, spider break in occurs when the driver is tested, before and/or after placement in the cabinet for which it's intended. Driver testing by signal stimulus at some point (or points) in the manufacturing process - if done at levels sufficient to break in the spider - generally makes further break in unnecessary. Hence, a finished system will not - in so far as its drivers are concerned - require further break in by a consumer once taken home from the dealer."

Here's another one for you. Hours to weeks in some cases.

Running-in period for hifi speakers

The loudspeakers used in speakers are complex mechanical parts which require a running in period in order to work to the best of their ability

www.focal.com

Home > Focal Teach > What is the running-in period ?




Running-in period
Loudspeakers running-in
The loudspeakers used in speakers are complex mechanical parts which require a running in period in order to work to the best of their ability and adapt to the temperature and humidity conditions of your environment. The mount will still be rigid and restrict the expression of medium and basses in particular. A loud speaker will not perform at its best in new condition.
Running-in period
This running in period varies according to the conditions encountered and can last for several weeks. To accelerate this operation, we advise you to run your speakers for twenty hours. Start with pieces of music without excessive basses and with low sound volume. During the twenty hours, regularly increase the volume and change the style of music. Once the speaker characteristics are totally stabilised, you will be able to enjoy the performances of your speakers in full.
Using your speakers at a reasonable volume will continue to run in your speakers and improve them. It is not unheard of for a system to continue to improve after 50 hours of running in.

And they are right, it takes a good period of time and at high levels with a lot of bass in some cases, same applies to headphones.


If you can't hear the difference from none broken in high end speakers or headphones, it means they are not for you and you wasted your money on something you can't hear the difference with. I hear how bad some speakers and headphones sound when new till they are broken in right and for sure after the break-in if they still sound bad they go back for a refund.

 

[JasonM]

Here's another one for you. Hours to weeks in some cases.

Running-in period for hifi speakers

The loudspeakers used in speakers are complex mechanical parts which require a running in period in order to work to the best of their ability

www.focal.com

And they are right, it takes a good period of time and at high levels with a lot of bass in some cases, same applies to headphones.

Andrew Jones explains speaker burn in, and how speakers change over time.

Do speakers change all that much after 100 hours of 'burn-in'? Part 1

I've interviewed Andrew Jones a number of times, but we never discussed speaker burn-in, now we have. Hope you enjoy it! In the Andrew Jones interview Part 2...

www.youtube.com

ELAC's Andrew Jones, speaker burn-in ISN'T that big a deal, Part 2

ELAC's Andrew Jones addresses questions about how speakers age, do they wear out?Here's Part 1 of the interview, Do speakers change after "burn in"? https:...

www.youtube.com

I'm not posting the above for yourself, but the people in this thread that don't believe speakers change over hours, days or even years.

 

[Guest2]

Interesting thread. OP was sorted by post 6 yet here we are 3 pages in with recommendations of £400 speakers

I'll put it out there that £70 might find you second hand 'hi-fi' (not real hi-fi but still) seperates on somewhere like facebook marketplace. Amp and a couple of speakers.
People seem to be selling floorstanders quite cheap now a days in favour of smaller bluetooth speakers

Or you could get a single active speaker (speaker that has an amp built in) e.g. a second hand KRK Rokit 6

 

[Mr Jack]

Interesting thread. OP was sorted by post 6 yet here we are 3 pages in with recommendations of £400 speakers

The worst thing is that after getting the new speakers, the quality of the built-in speakers on my TV started really annoying me and we ended up blowing almost €300 on a soundbar + subwoofer setup for the TV. So much for not spending too much on speakers!

 

[Guest2]

The worst thing is that after getting the new speakers, the quality of the built-in speakers on my TV started really annoying me and we ended up blowing almost €300 on a soundbar + subwoofer setup for the TV. So much for not spending too much on speakers!

A few years ago we went to John Lewis to look for a chest of drawes to replace a black open unit and two side tables for the bedroom, budget was around £800.
An hour later we left with a Naim Muso which was £1000
The Muso gets used daily and is fantastic, way better than boring storage. We later got two matching oak side tables off ebay for around £50, which match out bed. The open black unit thing, we still use.

 

[hornetstinger]

The worst thing is that after getting the new speakers, the quality of the built-in speakers on my TV started really annoying me and we ended up blowing almost €300 on a soundbar + subwoofer setup for the TV. So much for not spending too much on speakers!

I spend 10x that on subwoofers alone.

 

[JasonM]

You can have good audio for very little money, or at least hell of a lot better than sound bars.

For example, you can pick up vintage 90's Pioneer amps very cheap, the vintage Pioneer amps were all class A/B and made to last, most had plenty of headroom and were 120 RMS 8ohm or more. Providing they are working they will be equivalent of £500+ on todays amps. Then pre-owned Yamaha floor standing speakers, £200 will get you something quite reasonable. Ok there is still no sub woofer, but it's real HiFi and will out perform any of the soundbars, or modern cheap stuff costing far more new.

People forget how good some of the vintage gear was. I have a CD player called a Yamaha Natural player, dated 1991 it cost me £35! The sound is quite organic from it, it made it want to play CD's again. Of course HiFi shops, and paid YouTube review's don't want you buying second hand gear.

 

[Guest2]

You can have good audio for very little money, or at least hell of a lot better than sound bars.

For example, you can pick up vintage 90's Pioneer amps very cheap, the vintage Pioneer amps were all class A/B and made to last, most had plenty of headroom and were 120 RMS 8ohm or more. Providing they are working they will be equivalent of £500+ on todays amps. Then pre-owned Yamaha floor standing speakers, £200 will get you something quite reasonable. Ok there is still no sub woofer, but it's real HiFi and will out perform any of the soundbars, or modern cheap stuff costing far more new.

People forget how good some of the vintage gear was. I have a CD player called a Yamaha Natural player, dated 1991 it cost me £35! The sound is quite organic from it, it made it want to play CD's again. Of course HiFi shops, and paid YouTube review's don't want you buying second hand gear.

This. However there's three negatives.

1. They take up space.
2. Wires, often lots of wires.
3. It's not modern tech. Sort of relevant to 2 - no bluetooth, no spotify instant connect or anything like that so you'll need a cd player, laptop/computer/phone or something to connect to the amp to play your tracks off.

IMO buying one whole reasonable quality unit that does the lot will get a lot more use, as our Naim Muso does. Kef also make similar units, not cheap but having Spotiy and other music sources built in certainly helps.

The main point being the space though. Massive amps and speakers take up lots of space. Unless its a 'feature' of your room then they're generally just ugly.

When i'm rich ill have a dedicated music room with some nice old retro speaklers and amp

 

[hornetstinger]

This. However there's three negatives.

1. They take up space.
2. Wires, often lots of wires.
3. It's not modern tech. Sort of relevant to 2 - no bluetooth, no spotify instant connect or anything like that so you'll need a cd player, laptop/computer/phone or something to connect to the amp to play your tracks off.

IMO buying one whole reasonable quality unit that does the lot will get a lot more use, as our Naim Muso does. Kef also make similar units, not cheap but having Spotiy and other music sources built in certainly helps.

The main point being the space though. Massive amps and speakers take up lots of space. Unless its a 'feature' of your room then they're generally just ugly.

When i'm rich ill have a dedicated music room with some nice old retro speaklers and amp

oh noes, wires. Don't panic!

If you are into audio and don't have a wife, what's the problem? What are you going to put in a living room, one sofa and staring at a brick wall twiddling your thumbs?

You can add BT to any old amp with a BT receiver for less than £30.

A moderate sound system doesn't take that much space up, nor is it ugly.

My subs are about the size of a clothes chest but they have high end performance.

 

[Guest2]

oh noes, wires. Don't panic!

If you are into audio and don't have a wife, what's the problem? What are you going to put in a living room, one sofa and staring at a brick wall twiddling your thumbs?

You can add BT to any old amp with a BT receiver for less than £30.

A moderate sound system doesn't take that much space up, nor is it ugly.

My subs are about the size of a clothes chest but they have high end performance.

I've had amps and speakers for years (age 18 - ~35)
Most recent combo was my NAD C370 and B&W 603 S1 which I sold a few years ago. They were getting less and less use as a bluetooth speaker with Spotify was being used instead

Anything exist like a small dongle to enable Wifi & bluetooth that has RCA input for an amp? i.e connect that to amp out the way then control it from your Spotify app on phone

 

[wesimmo]

I've had amps and speakers for years (age 18 - ~35)
Most recent combo was my NAD C370 and B&W 603 S1 which I sold a few years ago. They were getting less and less use as a bluetooth speaker with Spotify was being used instead

Anything exist like a small dongle to enable Wifi & bluetooth that has RCA input for an amp? i.e connect that to amp out the way then control it from your Spotify app on phone

There's loads of little USB powered Bluetooth receivers on Amazon for £10/15. I have one powered off my Xbox next to my Cambridge Amp, RCA into Amp and all is good.

1Mii Bluetooth Receiver for HiFi... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08MXH722W?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[hornetstinger]

I've had amps and speakers for years (age 18 - ~35)
Most recent combo was my NAD C370 and B&W 603 S1 which I sold a few years ago. They were getting less and less use as a bluetooth speaker with Spotify was being used instead

Anything exist like a small dongle to enable Wifi & bluetooth that has RCA input for an amp? i.e connect that to amp out the way then control it from your Spotify app on phone

No problem with BT, just google search BT receivers. For Wifi though that sounds you want a audio streamer. Looking at Sonos and other things like that

 

[JasonM]

I use a HTPC with an Asus Essence sound card in it, I then connect this into a stereo amp. I use a Van Damme Lo-Cap 55 interconnect from sound card to amp.

The HTPC machine is in a Silverstone HTPC case, it sits below other stacker units, it kind of fits in with other units, I even have a separates tape desk! People would be amazed how good cassette tape can sound if recorded correctly on a quality separates unit!

The HTPC then connects into a 50" TV, and I have a wireless Logitech touchpad keyboard to control the HTPC.

Other advantage is I can Zoom from the HTPC, and have a Logitech BRIO and Blue Yeti mic connected up. During the pandemic I was having Zoom party's and I was running a Disco and the audio was coming into my stereo system.

 

[hornetstinger]

I use a HTPC with an Asus Essence sound card in it, I then connect this into a stereo amp. I use a Van Damme Lo-Cap 55 interconnect from sound card to amp.

The HTPC machine is in a Silverstone HTPC case, it sits below other stacker units, it kind of fits in with other units, I even have a separates tape desk! People would be amazed how good cassette tape can sound if recorded correctly on a quality separates unit!

The HTPC then connects into a 50" TV, and I have a wireless Logitech touchpad keyboard to control the HTPC.

Other advantage is I can Zoom from the HTPC, and have a Logitech BRIO and Blue Yeti mic connected up. During the pandemic I was having Zoom party's and I was running a Disco and the audio was coming into my stereo system.

Video streamers have advanced to the point of making HTPC redudant.

Totally silent, low power, oproper framerate switching , hardware video acceleration, full support of HDR, Atmos, DTS X etc- for £40-£150.

Of course if you use a HTPC for games, madvr scaling, internet use, youtube (as TV youtube has ads etc) then sure..

 

[JasonM]

I tend to agree HTPC's have been replaced by video streamers.

I do have the advantage of Zoom calling, and can connect in my Brio Webcam and Blue Yeti mic into the HTPC.

Also, I like the sound quality output from the Asus Essence, those cards always had natural (or at least less processed) sound to them. I would be surprised if the DAC inside most budget streams would match the quality.

Another advantage. I can record from the HTPC onto cassette tape! So for example I can stream from Amazon Music HD in 24 bit, set Amazon Music into exclusive mode. Must admit it's not something I do often, however there is some magic about tape being you play a tape without starting any of the digital devices up. Power on the amp, press tape play, and it's instant music.

 

[hornetstinger]

I tend to agree HTPC's have been replaced by video streamers.

I do have the advantage of Zoom calling, and can connect in my Brio Webcam and Blue Yeti mic into the HTPC.

Also, I like the sound quality output from the Asus Essence, those cards always had natural (or at least less processed) sound to them. I would be surprised if the DAC inside most budget streams would match the quality.

You'd use HDMI video/audio, so soundcard in a HTPC is not used. That'll be your AVR.

How do you get discrete multi-channel audio (at least 6 channels, upto 11) and Atmos, and DTS:X?) also HDR support video etc. I understand PC HDR is different to TV HDR?

 

[JasonM]

You'd use HDMI video/audio, so soundcard in a HTPC is not used. That'll be your AVR.

How do you get discrete multi-channel audio (at least 6 channels, upto 11) and Atmos, and DTS:X?) also HDR support video etc. I understand PC HDR is different to TV HDR?

I just have a stereo amp !

My front room is the wrong size anyway to position multi-channel, so I just live with stereo.

 

[hornetstinger]

I just have a stereo amp !

My front room is the wrong size anyway to position multi-channel, so I just live with stereo.

Fair enough but also means you are losing LFE channel, so missing low bass.

 

[Guest2]

There's loads of little USB powered Bluetooth receivers on Amazon for £10/15. I have one powered off my Xbox next to my Cambridge Amp, RCA into Amp and all is good.

1Mii Bluetooth Receiver for HiFi... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08MXH722W?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Awesome. At least these devices bring new life to aging amps and speakers. Amp wise, i've had two in the past where they needed repair. Was costly so sold them as spares. Suppose not much different to something like a CRT monitor

No problem with BT, just google search BT receivers. For Wifi though that sounds you want a audio streamer. Looking at Sonos and other things like that

I have a Naim Muso. Got rid of the floorstanders and rather large amp years ago

 

[wesimmo]

Awesome. At least these devices bring new life to aging amps and speakers. Amp wise, i've had two in the past where they needed repair. Was costly so sold them as spares. Suppose not much different to something like a CRT monitor


I have a Naim Muso. Got rid of the floorstanders and rather large amp years ago

My CD player started getting temperamental and I never got round to replacing it TBF. My entire music life is played through that bluetooth receiver at home. I kept my CD racks out though, I like to browse them for stuff I forget about and then play it on Spotify.

One thing a CD rack can't do is recommend you more stuff, Spotify is amazing at it so my stereo gets more use than ever.