Lowering - Why??

[Will]

I know I'm talking about the mk1 here but I was very surprised just how much additional dampening my friends Meister-R fitted car had over my one running relatively fresh OEM suspension.

While it doesn't look as good as the numerous lowered mk1's I see my one is going to remain stock I think. Yes I could get more grip and less roll by going down the coil over route but for me the car is just about fun not how quick I can get it from A to B.

What damper settings does he have it adjusted to (how many clicks from soft front/rear)? And who fitted the suspension - as the spring preload is fully adjustable (somewhat independently from ride height due to the dual perch design), and makes a considerable difference too.

You can make Meister Rs really quite comfortable for the Mk3 (on a par with stock ride/factory fitted bilsteins), not sure how the Mk1 and Mk2 MX5 setups compare though

 

[lordrobs]

What damper settings does he have it adjusted to (how many clicks from soft front/rear)? And who fitted the suspension - as the spring preload is fully adjustable (somewhat independently from ride height due to the dual perch design), and makes a considerable difference too.

You can make Meister Rs really quite comfortable for the Mk3 (on a par with stock ride/factory fitted bilsteins), not sure how the Mk1 and Mk2 MX5 setups compare though

He did tell me but I can't remember TBH. He said that he adjusted it a fair bit from his road settings when he took it on track. His dad always complained that his road settings were too soft though

 

[Clarkey]

MX5 are a pain in the arse lowered tbh. The control arms are short so you get mental camber change, and the dampers are super short so you struggle to keep it off the bump stops. When you're pushing it hard (the only way with no power ) and the rear starts bouncing off the bumps stops and oscillating you get the feeling of imminent death.

 

[Will]

Which is why the meister rs were revised to have an extended rear top mount for the mk1 and mk2 to avoid running out of damper travel and avoid bouncing off the bump stops.

The current mx5 trend though seems to be to fit the cheapest coilovers going, slam the thing on its arse, paint the wheels a bright colour, weld the diff and refer to it as a 'drift ****' and cover it in stickers. The finer points of suspension setup for handling or road manners don't seem important compared to lowz or stance for this subset of owners. There are plenty of folk running with a small drop and with matched springs/dampers as well mind who are bothered...

 

[Boycey0211]

well I'm part way into rebuilding a 60's ford, ordered coilovers from a company that specialises in the car, including lowering and all suspension matters.

Coilovers came with a hand drawn note with 'do not lower crossmember to less than 4.5 inches ground clearance, you will lose the sump'

Customer service right there

 

[Nick1881]

My car is lowered, not too bad over bumps and the handling was much improved. The car in the op does look broken, I saw a similar 3 series on the motorway a while back.

 

[lordrobs]

Which is why the meister rs were revised to have an extended rear top mount for the mk1 and mk2 to avoid running out of damper travel and avoid bouncing off the bump stops.

The current mx5 trend though seems to be to fit the cheapest coilovers going, slam the thing on its arse, paint the wheels a bright colour, weld the diff and refer to it as a 'drift ****' and cover it in stickers. The finer points of suspension setup for handling or road manners don't seem important compared to lowz or stance for this subset of owners. There are plenty of folk running with a small drop and with matched springs/dampers as well mind who are bothered...

I honestly don't know how they drive those really low ones. Even in OEM 4x4 mode I've had a bit of bump and grind with a speed bump in my one. The ones that make me face palm the most are those that post up pictures of the damage they've done to the under side of their car as if it is some kind of badge of honour.

I notice that a 15mm or so drop seems to be standard on eco models now. I doubt the manufacturer goes to the bother of different dampers etc. so are these just shorter springs?

 

[Jonny69]

Cars have historically looked so much better when lowered, they even used to do roof chops to get the car low. low is good, if done right

http://www.donshotrodpage.net/Editorials/custom002.JPG[IMG][/QUOTE]
Come on, people were lowering cars and chopping tops waaaaaaaay before 1949 :p

This is '45 I think...

[MEDIA=youtube]v6aW6Z_r-9w[/MEDIA]

 

[Glacius]

Although its on a rolling road this is how low mine is and yes its a royal pain in the ass at times and I can't go in multistorie carparks and speed bumps are 50/50 but I just like how it sits/looks, guess as usual ist all down to personal preference.

 

[scousegit]

the owner of that porsche above should be either shot on sight or water boarded

 

[Gibbo]

My M3 at its ideal ride height settings for optimal performance:-

I believe its about 30mm lower than stock, improves handling noticeably, ride not much effected but that's because its done properly using coil overs and not just shorter springs on stock shocks.

Go any lower than that, will result in worse handling and I see so many M3's and other BMW's far far lower.

 

[Clarkey]

You actually tried it and know that for sure?

 

[Matt82]

 

[shauncr91]

Suspension is very much down to drive preference, just because it works well for one person doesn't mean it will for the next, that's why you should tinker around and find what's best like Clarkey says

 

[Gibbo]

You actually tried it and know that for sure?

Spires-ST, thorney, Simpsons motorsport, the entire CSL community are all saying 330mm front and 325mm is the absolute optimal setting for an M3 or CSL on KW's for best performance on road or ring.

Simpsons made it very clear that the front should be 5-10mm higher than rear and to aim for the front wishbones to be parallel with ground which they are at this height.

To be Frank is several specialist who have all raced M3's professionally at several UK tracks I think it's fair to assume it's a good setting to work on and it's good on road clears all bumps etc. with no grounding etc.

Am sure on a glass smooth race track with further modified suspension, different lower arms etc. etc. then maybe lower is better.

I am merely copying a well tried and tested settings which many people have put the time and effort in to test and come to the conclusion these settings were best for a car which is track day or weekend car.

 

[shauncr91]

Fair enough

 

[Blackhawk47]

Lowering cars properly and a little bit lower than stock is fine if done right. Using air ride is probably the best way if thats your thing though people spend ridicioulous amounts of money doing so. That Porsche example posted earlier is just so wrong. And so is this...

 

[Simon]

Any pictures inside the car? The whole suspension will be custom to allow correct geometry at such low suspension.

Lowering a road car gives you a small benefit in terms of CoG but is usually offset by the messed up roll centres and roll/bump steer curves. You can increase roll by lowering.

 

[Clarkey]

No problem with that, just thinking of Al Clarks M3 which is dropped nicely and runs hard around the Nordschleife regularly, a track known for being bumpy and unforgiving.

In my experience, the link between handling/comfort and ride height is pretty tenuous and anything can be made to work if done well.

Oh, FWIW though, those E36 supertourers are fully decked, but there is no actual E36 left in the suspension systems.

 

[Gibbo]

No problem with that, just thinking of Al Clarks M3 which is dropped nicely and runs hard around the Nordschleife regularly, a track known for being bumpy and unforgiving.

In my experience, the link between handling/comfort and ride height is pretty tenuous and anything can be made to work if done well.

Oh, FWIW though, those E36 supertourers are fully decked, but there is no actual E36 left in the suspension systems.

My ride heights are the same as Al's he gave me the ride height settings also. His car fills the arches more due to his wheel offset and wider tyre setup.

Look as this CSL CUP car which won the championship in 2009 and 2010:-
http://www.bhpmsport.com/bmw_e46_m3_race_car_(np-0000000151).html

Ride height looks close to mine and is a competitive track car not used on road, it looks maybe 10mm lower if that and no doubt has custom suspension setup like Simon says designed to be lower. Certainly not slammed by any means like the car posted above. For my road going M3 I cam confident the ride heights I'm at are an optimal ride height for performance and function on track and road.