Lucid Virtu MVP

Soldato
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This is a core feature of the new 'Panther Point' Z77 boards released along with Ivy bridge.

I'm struggling to wade through marketing speak and buzzwords, to find out what it actually does for end users, and what difference it will make to me.

For context, I currently have an 880FX AMD chipset and a 1090t, running with a 580 GTX. I'm likely going to get a 3770K and a yet to be decided Z77 board.

I know that I'll be gaining a significant amount of processing power. 5980 passmarks on the 1090t, compared to 10400 passmarks on the 3770K assuming a 10% clock for clock improvement on the 2700K, and probably more as it's possible to overclock Ivy/Sandy Bridge without a scary electricity bill.

What I won't be gaining is anything where I'm playing a game that's GPU bound. Or will I?

This is where Lucid Virtu MVP comes in.

Here's a video of a Gigabyte rep being interviewed by someone from Vortez reviews.

The first thing in the video shows the Street Fighter benchmark being run without vsync at some 225 FPS, showing tearing, with vsync showing FPS dropping to 60 with no tearing, and finally with Lucid Virtu MVP "Virtual Vsync" running, it ups the FPS to 150.

To me that's utterly useless. You can't see the frames your monitor doesn't display. Vsync to 60 FPS is perfect because it stops your GPU burning electricity generating frames that won't be seen, and it stops tearing. There's no benefit I can think of in those 150 FPS over the 60 FPS.

The second thing the video shows, and it's crammed in at the very end, is removing redundant rendering tasks. Now this increases FPS in the benchmark to 460 FPS. Now that is significant. I think it's absolutely inevitable that it'll reduce quality. There's no way that I believe a third party intercepting GPU calls and removing some of them will not result in some decrease in quality. Anandtech and Tom's Hardware et all will no doubt in a few weeks/months come up with some kind of analysis of it. However it's the case that where you might be getting 30-60 FPS in a game, you could enable this and end up with 50-90 FPS in a game, which could change the whole experience. I would also guess that it might be a better experience than lowering the quality settings in game.

What I wanted to find information on, and what isn't here is on combining graphics processing power. Intel is upping the ante on Ivy Bridge, stating some 60% performance increase over Sandy Bridge. That's a fair amount of power to be sitting unused, and I want it to be used.

There's two ways I can think of it being used...

1) Kill off my discrete card unless something needs it. In other words have my discrete card go into the lowest power saving mode possible, and have the Ivy Bridge CPU handle desktop graphics. This is talked about here but I'd like to see something more concrete than the equivalent of Lucid telling me these aren't the droids I'm looking for.

2) Combine the 580 and the HD 4000 graphics performance in game. Some kind of hybrid SLI or Crossfire. The only mention I can find of this is here at Hardware Secrets where it says "Virtu Universal MVP, which allows you to combine the performance of the integrated graphics processor available in the CPU with the performance of any video card installed". That doesn't quite match what Lucid say... although Lucid seem to want to imply it, while being careful not to say it.

Edit : A bit more information in that link there. It's a preview before the Z68 boards came out of a previous version. It's talking more about how Virtu works and my understanding is a little more clear.

It sits between Windows and the graphics card drivers, and it decides who gets what. This allows it to feed normal Windows stuff to the intel GPU and only when it gets complicated stuff does it ship it out to the discrete card. This allows the discrete card to theoretically idle down and save power. At the time of that article being written there were no power savings made because the cards weren't idling down. Since then I don't expect nVidia/AMD have improved their drivers for power efficiency. I would expect at some point they will, however it might need new cards to come out for that to happen. The whole world and their dog is going to eventually have this technology, meaning the whole world and their dog who are running discrete cards will want the discrete card to power right down. I'm sure it will get covered in a review at some point after Ivy Bridge launch, I don't expect it'll be a top priority at launch.

I can't find any information about this doing some kind of hybrid sli/crossfire, I think if it was going to do it then Lucid themselves would mention it. So it appears with what I've managed to glean today that it's not going to help me directly - I don't need higher frame rates under vsync, and I don't think there's any games that'll task my current setup too hard.
 
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streetfighter isnt a demanding game,but it will boost games that are demanding,it will work alongside your graphics card to improve framerates ect,think of it as a descrete physics gpu if you have an nvidia gpu
 
it shares the load of your graphic card,yes hd4000 graphics are around 40% better that hd3000 graphics of old but they are still behind amd's igpu's

but as tesco says "every little helps"

i dont know all the inns and outs of the tech but it should work alongside modern games as apposed to the old lucid virtu where it switches from igpu to graphic card depending on load
 
With all due respect my post was to try to shed light on the ins and outs of it, because in my opinion it's a load of marketing speak with nothing solid behind it... and you've basically just repeated the marketing speak as some kind of answer.

How does it share the load of the graphics card? Hardware Secrets wording seems to indicate they run in tandem, however Lucid's own wording says different.
 
well i just watched that video,and instead of limiting the framerates to 60fps or matching your monitors refreshrate it eliminates the tearing without limiting the framerates to do it,i agree he could have explained it a bit better

a better example would have been bf3 and see how it improves the framerates with lucid mvp

what hes saying is that it wont limit the frames to eliminate tearing like normal vsync does

sorry if im covering old ground

and your right anything above 60fps is pretty pointless,might help those with 120hz monitors though
 
ok, so my video encoding tests went bad, so will research a bit more and see what im doing wrong, but for now here are by game tests.

F1 2011 (Ultra 8XQ CSAA) :
Hyperformance On Virtual Vsync Off

Average FPS 68
Minimum FPS 57
Samples 7852

Hyperformance On Virtual Vsync On

Average FPS 55
Minimum FPS 49
Samples 6431

Hyperformance Off Virtual Vsync Off

Average FPS 62
Minimum FPS 56
Samples 7026

Hyperformance On Virtual Vsync Off (ingame vsync on)

Average FPS 68
Minimum FPS 56
Samples 7753

Hyperformance Off Virtual Vsync Off (ingame vsync on)

Average FPS 59
Minimum FPS 56
Samples 6758

Batman AA :

hyperformance off virtual vysnc off
min 72
max 153
avg 106

vsync on
min 57
max 60
avg 59

hyperformance on virtual vsync on
min 64
max 121
avg 91

hyperformance on virtual vsync off
min 67
max 146
avg 104

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=21566681#post21566681

my findings of MVP so far are that yes you might say its pointless having more than 60fps with a 60hz monitor with the virtual vsysnc, but it does work. I have smoother gameplay with no screen tearing with the virtual vysnc and hyperformance on in F1 2011 which is the only game I have actually spent time playing. GTA IV was also considerably better from the short time I played it too.
 
[I've also edited the top post with a bit more info]

I think you're in the win zone for it paradisiac, your 560 isn't as beefy (and I don't mean to sound anything other than factual, I hope it doesn't come across wrong) as the 580, so there will be games where the minimum frame rate drops into the zone where it's noticable. In those circumstances higher frame rates benefit you.

The question is though if it's better to turn on the Lucid Virtu stuff and have it cut out 'redundant rendering' or if it's best to turn down the detail level. From what you've said the Virtu stuff seems to be the better option, so it looks like this is the area where it'll be of use. It also means for me that in a couple of years time when the 580 starts to age, I'll be able to boost it a bit.

Still not the 'holy grail' of merging both GPUs together... but I think that would be a lot to ask.
 
isn't it partly down to the time delay between frames? even if you can't see it, it does mean your actions are being processed faster.

with normal vsync and 60fps you have ~17ms delay between each frame
with the new tech you get 60fps on screen (no tearing) but ~150fps which means the delay moves down to ~6.7ms

If you can set it per game, it could mean you have normal vsync for things like mmos/rts and then switch to the new tech for any first person shooters.

Don't quote me on this though :P I might be completely wrong.
 
Hi, there is going to be An ASRock AMD motherboard supporting LucidLogix Virtu (ASRock A75 Pro4/MVP). When will there be more motherboards supporting it?
 
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I read this in the conlusion of the Hardware Heaven Z77 reviews - seems to suggest its not that good?

"We started with the ASRock board earlier in the review so let's do the same again for the conclusion, after a quick word on Lucid's VirtuMVP. All of the boards tested today support this technology. For anyone using a modern, discrete GPU from AMD or NVIDIA we suggest you do no install the software. AMD and NVIDIA's latest cards, on their own, provide GPU compute, HD acceleration and gaming performance which has gone through rigorous testing with performance fitting the price band. Additionally they offer minimal power draw in idle and desktop tasks. Intel too provide good, stable drivers for the built in GPU and can assist with video tasks such as playback and conversion. Enabling Virtu adds an extra level of software which offers little benefit to both groups of consumers and, in our opinion, is nothing more than a marketing gimmick which has no place on enthusiast products. Stick with AMD, Intel and NVIDIA only."
 
one thing to note is that it doesn't work if you've got a crossfire or SLI setup.

I think it'll only work well on low end hardware. anything mid range or higher and it becomes a gimmick.
 
I can't see why it shouldn't be made to work with SLI/X-fire setups. I would like to see benchmarks with 1 GPU + Virtu MVP Hyperformance vs 2 GPUs in the same system to see whether there is a difference. I can't see NVidia and AMD being too happy if the 1 GPU + Virtu MVP solution performing better than dual GPU systems. FPS figures are probably not accurate in terms of measuring performance in this regard anyway.

What would be nice would be to get a table of the advantages and disadvantages of the software as at the minute it is a total muddle and I don't think people understand how it would apply to them.
 
what would be nice is to combine with a nice APU like trinity for a great on-board boost! this would take Trinity more than 50% upto 70-80% better than intels new IGP solution.. then be able to add a dedicated card :)

hybrid-hybrid .. err crossfire
 
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