Malaysian Grand Prix 2010, Sepang - Race 3/19

[mmj_uk]

They just need to get back to basics with the aerodynamic package, back in the day cars had two simple wings and an equally simple monocoque, today everything up to and including the mirrors are designed to provide downforce.

The current cars are built for driving fast laps in clean air not for racing.

 

[LizardKing]

F1 drivers wouldn't be able to cope with most oval tracks. Way too difficult for them. I can't imagine a race at, say, Daytona ending in anything except a series of big crashes. Too bumpy, too fast, too difficult.

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Are you seriously suggesting that champ/indy car racing is more difficult than f1?

I'd say the tracks/cars are not suitable.

 

[Lopéz]

Are you seriously suggesting that champ/indy car racing is more difficult than f1?

I think he's saying it requires a totally different racing discipline.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

They just need to get back to basics with the aerodynamic package

They would have if not for the double diffusers - these should never have been allowed.

They also need to get rid of all the winglets!

 

[dannyjo22]

Also, modern day F1 drivers have proved time and again that they cannot run in close formation with other cars without hitting each other.

The track would look like a carbon-fibre bomb had gone off within seconds of the start.

Yes it did make me laugh when Brundle mentioned the ex Gp2 drivers having a real go at overtaking until f1 beats it out of them and they start to toe the party line of overtaking being impossible.

Indy drivers in general have far more respect for their fellow drivers when racing wheel to wheel.

 

[sunama]

They would have if not for the double diffusers - these should never have been allowed.

They also need to get rid of all the winglets!

Even if they get rid of the winglets, which I think have now largely been banned and get rid of the multiple decker diffusers, the aero downforce will still be very very high. Engineers find other methods to claw back the downforce lost when the FIA add restrictions.

Last year it was agreed that aero would be reduced by a huge percentage. This never happened, mainly because the teams could not agree unanimously on how this should be acheived. The Overtaking Working Group are joke and that "Group" should be disbanded as soon as possible.

I think we simply have to accept that high aero downforce in F1 is here to stay is likely to increase in time.

The FIA have to find other methods to make racing more exciting. IMO, although artificial, water on the track is the proven and most direct way to disrupt a processional, dry race and it can be introduced at very short notice with little cost.

If you introduce new regs, these are normally announced 1-3 years before they become mandatory.

 

[Glaucus]

I think we simply have to accept that high aero downforce in F1 is here to stay is likely to increase in time.

The FIA have to find other methods to make racing more exciting. IMO, although artificial, water on the track is the proven and most direct way to disrupt a processional, dry race and it can be introduced at very short notice with little cost.
.

It just needs a change of thought. Unrestrict development on engines and other subsystems, increase tyre widths, decrease aero.

Artificial stuff is not what is needed. engineers just need to be able to improve mechanical, power and other areas and be restricted on aero. It would solve the problems, reinstate F1 as pinnacle of technology.

 

[sunama]

I do agree that mechanical grip needs to be increased. What the FIA are worried about is that if they give F1 cars bigger tyres, say, then the cars will become dangerously fast. The same goes for engine development - within 2-3 years you could end up having cars hitting 250mph+. An accident at that speed could be catastrophic.

Aerodynamic downforce needs to be reduced, but judging by what happened last year and over the Winter, this simply isnt going to happen...so I think we just have to get used to having shed loads of aerodynamic downforce.

Also, has anybody read any interesting stuff regarding Schumacher. I'm seriously wondering now if he will even bother sticking it out to the end of the season.

 

[JRS]

What you forgot to mention was what happened later that season.

Did I? Now there was me thinking I was taking issue with your definition of the word 'immediately'. I'm glad you're here sunama, to tell me what I've actually posted. I mean, you've been so good over the years at actually reading my posts rather than reading into them a truly bizarre amount of supposition....

Yes, Mansell did well after 'immediately' crashing in an oval track race. This is no surpise - he hopped into a car that won the '91 title and narrowly lost the '92 title, and he's a truly awesome driver who could go toe-to-toe with Senna on-track and come out ahead. This was a not what you'd really call a major surprise. What is a surprise is that no-one did it since, given what I'm told about the massive superiority of F1 drivers over IndyCar drivers....

Are you seriously suggesting that champ/indy car racing is more difficult than f1?

It's different, is all. Had you mentioned NASCAR, I would have said that it does seem to be more difficult. Hence F1 champions and other drivers who have zero oval experience not doing overly well when they try it. Jacques Villeneuve broke that one by having a good amount of oval experience and still being **** at NASCAR racing.

That being said - Narain Karthikeyan (now just how many of you remember him?) ran his first NASCAR truck race the other week and finished well up the order. Absolutely fantastic run for him.

 

[Glaucus]

Snip

Saftey has improved cars could go faster and not be catastrophic, they could also increase safety. Do crash tests at higher speed.

You can also negate speed by limiting fuel. Get as much power you can from x-litres of fuel per race. allow turbos or anything else. Real development useful in other industries.

Aero has not been combated as rules have not been introduced. You need to severely limit from and rear wing design as well as under car. This could easily be done and introduced by 2012 maybe even 2011. However I would only liek to see this, if other areas are opened up for development.

 

[sunama]

Saftey has improved cars could go faster and not be catastrophic, they could also increase safety. Do crash tests at higher speed.

Try telling that to the FIA.

 

[Sparky]

I do agree that mechanical grip needs to be increased. What the FIA are worried about is that if they give F1 cars bigger tyres, say, then the cars will become dangerously fast. The same goes for engine development - within 2-3 years you could end up having cars hitting 250mph+. An accident at that speed could be catastrophic.

I cant imagine a driver would be anymore dead than he if he crashed at 200MPH.

Personally i think the FIA should just let teams build the fastest car possible, it is a race afterall.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I cant imagine a driver would be anymore dead than he if he crashed at 200MPH.

Personally i think the FIA should just let teams build the fastest car possible, it is a race afterall.

Costs would spiral though - but I do agree with the crash speed. Just put more run off on the tracks, less "bumps" for cars to fly over and no concrete walls!!!

 

[robbiemc]

But you can't just let the cars go as fast as possible - they're already generating nearly 5g on braking and sustained 4.5g on some corners. I'm amazed that the drivers can withstand that as it is for two hours.
Faster cornering means tracks will have to enlarge their run off areas. There's no debate about this as we're not in the 60's now, people actually care about driver and spectator safety. Allowing unlimited corner speeds simply wouldn't be realistic.
Of course making cars technically open would mean less and less driver input and involvement - in order to win the cars would need faster reactions than mere humans can achieve, so we'd have to let the computers take control - what fun.

Then you've got the cost. We'll be back to the bad old days of the biggest cheque book wins races, and by a long way, what fun is that?

Acid, I think we all agree that on the face of it lowering aero influence could improve racing, but clearly it's not that straightforward as it would have been implemented by now. A big part of the problem is that the overtaking working group is made from the teams, and they're not going to want to give up their technical innovations - it's like asking a classroom of pupils if they want to do homework or not - of course they don't, and that's why you have to tell them, not ask them.

 

[Glaucus]

Acid, I think we all agree that on the face of it lowering aero influence could improve racing, but clearly it's not that straightforward.

It is that straightforward, but as you say it's politics.

And limiting fuel would ensure cars did not gain much speed. Whilst opening up innovation and being useful. could reduce fuel by 5% every 2nd year or something.

There isn't a limit on costs at the moment, they already spending as much as they can spend.
Opening up innovation actually allows lower budget teams to get a shot. As it costs far less to have an inspiration that to shave 0.001 second of a lap with aero and using wind tunnels.

 

[arknor]

Also, has anybody read any interesting stuff regarding Schumacher. I'm seriously wondering now if he will even bother sticking it out to the end of the season.

a bit of bad luck with a wheel nut and beeing stuck behind a torro rosso for 30laps is going to make him quit?

both the ferraris couldnt overtake bueme or jaime in the last race either they followed for 15 lap until they pitted.

schumacher hasnt had a chance to show anything yet, in the little racing hes had he hasnt had clear air for more than a few laps but when he has he set purple sectors which suggests he has the speed.

rosberg has been very lucky and hes capitalised on the other teams failings mclaren , redbull and ferrari wont have many more races like they have if any.

the only wheel to wheel racing rosberg did do is when hamilton went around the outside of him so imo rosberg hasnt proved himself either

 

[sunama]

rosberg has been very lucky and hes capitalised on the other teams failings mclaren , redbull and ferrari wont have many more races like they have if any.

the only wheel to wheel racing rosberg did do is when hamilton went around the outside of him so imo rosberg hasnt proved himself either

Before this season, I never rated Rosberg highly. But after the start to the season he has had (and beating MS in the process), he has gone up in my estimation.

Oh and speaking of luck - you make your own luck by placing yourself in the right place at the right time. Strategy plays a big part here and previously MS was legendary in this area. Sometimes, it used to feel as if the race was falling into MS's lap. This hasnt been the case in the last 3 races though.

 

[sunama]

Opening up innovation actually allows lower budget teams to get a shot. As it costs far less to have an inspiration that to shave 0.001 second of a lap with aero and using wind tunnels.

I doubt that that's how low budget teams see it, otherwise they might've made a request for the budget restrictions to be lifted along with innovation caps.

If you have a HUGE budget, then you can spend money on multiple innovative projects and it is very likely that at least some of them will come to fruition and yield significant speed improvements. However, if you are limited with your budget, the amount of simultaneous innovative projects you can invest in will be less and unless you get very lucky (or innovative), then you will find your team going backwards, alarmingly quickly.

 

[mmj_uk]

Also, has anybody read any interesting stuff regarding Schumacher. I'm seriously wondering now if he will even bother sticking it out to the end of the season.

I actually think he will leave before the season end citing fitness or injury as his reason for quitting, it's a bit cringeworthy seeing him look embarrassingly into the camera after each qualifying session and I think his return is doing his reputation more damage than it's worth, I think he will soon (if not already) realise that it was a mistake coming back.

I could be wrong but that's my gut feeling.

 

[FrankJH]

for the amount of money MS is being paid - he WILL see out the contract undoubtedly, at least see how the team grows (even he mentioned recently how bad the Ferrari was the first season he was there, so he was never expecting instant success) over the winter

this boost button would be really interesting - as long as it uses enough extra fuel with each use to be a detriment at the end of the race ie running engine leaner / slower for longer so that there are more tactics

Im actually quite surprised how wide the tyre change times still are, comparitively speaking - but even this is basically a side show unless someone has to change tyres more frequently because of a puncture or something, otherwise it makes little difference