Managing 2 (potential) job offers.

[ninjabib]

The water job sounds interesting to me, it really does, i believe it has a lot of potential to other areas/skills too, it just has night shifts which i have done plenty of and have no real burning desire to get back too. I also found out earlier that my best friends brother works there in the same area but a level or 2 higher and i've picked his brain this evening and said it's a good company to work for and the work is not intense like at JLR so he thinks i'll find the night shifts at ST a doddle in comparison.

I will email the MD back and if he doesn't budge i will have to pass. I like to think it's simply a slip and he basically says "oh yes, i remember you saying" if he doesn't then i'd feel like i'm being lowballed. I would study for AAT regardless of whatever job i take next. My preference would be to have some accountancy experience when i've completed it though.

 

[A2Z]

Honestly, this seems like a really bad way to decide which path to follow over potentially the next 30 years of your life... letting the decision be made by whether or not some MD of one accountancy firm will agree to pay a certain amount or not.

Couldn't disagree more. If OP has agreed a salary and now the offer letter states less, that's just plain rude/lazy and sets a very bad first impression of how the company operates.

I will happily turn down jobs out of principle. If a company can't stick to their word before even starting there, how are they going to stick to their word in the future?

 

[dowie]

Couldn't disagree more. If OP has agreed a salary and now the offer letter states less, that's just plain rude/lazy and sets a very bad first impression of how the company operates.

I will happily turn down jobs out of principle. If a company can't stick to their word before even starting there, how are they going to stick to their word in the future?

Hang on what are you disagreeing with here? I think you've misread my post which is about the career choice not the specific job. I think you've also misread the OP's as he doesn't say they agreed to a salary (he's only just had an offer now) but that he'd stated his minimum amount Y in the interview and that the offer he's received is lower than that.

 

[ninjabib]

In the first interview the MD said pay range would be from x-y. I said i can drop to Y but not lower he said ok then the discussion moved on. Salary wasn't broguht up today, it was very informal and mainly to meet the person who i would be taking over from. He said he would email the offer by the end of the week and the email came through a few hours later but with X figure on which i stated i cannot drop down too in the first interview.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Don't email the MD, give him a call!

Any MD is going to be swamped with emails, plus it comes across as incredibly lazy if you can't be bothered to pick up the phone. Did you ask the water company about flexibility regarding shifts? I'd be surprised if they outright said you had to work nights if they have a flexible working policy.

 

[ninjabib]

He initiates contact by email on every occasion so i've gone along with it, plus i woud have a 'paper trail' so to speak. Anyway had a massive argument with my dad tonight so thought best to leave it till things cooled down. Will ring in the AM.

Water company is days/nights 50-50 they said. Not flexible outside of that.

 

[413x]

If they paid the same what would you want ? At this point it seems you want the accountancy one? Take this into you get something better

Myself I'd go for the water one as its more interesting, but my motives would be that not the pay

However if it literally is paying /not paying the mortgage that's different

Edit
Just seen days /nights . I wouldn't do that myself. That's what the extra pay is

 

[ivrytwr3]

A couple of things spring to mind:

• Why on earth did you say you cannot accept less that xxxx? That is obviously what they are now going to offer (go high and let them come down).
• 
  
• I'd be unhappy if they have now offered even less and i certainly would not take the role as mentioned above, disrespectful and they will see you as a soft touch (future pay rises may be minimal etc)

You are in a good position what with 2 offers on the table. Maybe go back to the MD and state that you really liked the look of the company, would be a good fit etc, however, you were upfront in your interview whn you stated you could not accept less than xxx and he has offered less + you have been offered xxxx at another role. Would love to work with you, however, the salary is making this unbelievable, would he be prepared to review etc.

Just a thought. Oh and have a chat with your dad, they are usually only trying to do what's best and can see things happening before their kids can due to their life experience!!

 

[dowie]

2 offers on the table might be useful if the other offer was another rival accountancy firm, if you mention that you're otherwise just going to head off to some water company and follow a completely different career then it isn't only irrelevant but also the accountancy firm might well be inclined to not bother and/or question the motivation - after all they're potentially going to spend time and money on a multi-year training scheme, they probably want people who are keen and committed to follow that career not someone who would ditch it at the drop of a hat.

 

[ninjabib]

I know I was silly to state my minimum salary requirements but I thought if I lay my cards on the table and say I cannot go lower than Y then they won't try and offer me X and as he said ok and changed subject I thought that was that but now he's offered me X.

I could take X and pay my outgoings but I'd be around another 200 a month worse off than under Y which would make any kind of social life hard.

The difference between X and the water board is now £100 a week. Myself I am just a bit wary too now. I stated Y, he said ok,moved on and 4/5 days later offers X. When I clearly said I can't take X so now it feels like the trust has taken a hit before I start.

My problem is that I own a house worth 300k that I got for half of that but it needed a lot of work. Stripped out from top to bottom. Doing that work has cost me 50k over 2 years. Half of which I took out my savings half personal.loans.My outgoings are 1500 per month which is a lot. That doesn't include anything socially. Mortgage/loans/credit card/bills and food. I only owe 140k inclusive so I have a lot of equity but not much cash now I'm gone from JLR.

I never expect a company to pay for all my training I like to self study out of work too. If I took the water board job I would still start AAT regardless. If the water board job turned out to be amazing then maybe id stop the self study.


Spoke to my friends brother again today and he said it really is a good place to work and the job is fairly chilled out. Everyone starts on shifts he said but he was off nights after a year as he moved up.

My dad isn't trying to help, he never has. He has mental health issues. It's draining when he makes contact as you know he's going to start an argument.

 

[jaybee]

Just remember that when starting new jobs, what you go in on pay wise affects potentially many years into the future. You only get this powerful position once to negotiate better pay. It's rare that the opportunity comes up again. Sometimes it happens where you can demand a pay rise in a powerful position and the company has to go along with it, but statistically it's rare.

Say you are on 22k in a job, and applying for a job advertised typically as "20-30k DOE (Dependant on experience)" or "up to 30k". Then during talks with your agent or the business if dealing direct, you don't say things like "the minimum I would take is X". You say things like "I'm interested in the role at the higher end of the advertised scale because I believe I am worth that". Doesn't matter if you don't think you are worth it. Always sell yourself high. It's for them to determine whether you are or not. Obviously don't BS and say you can do things you can't, but do sell yourself as worth investing in because "I adapt well to new challenges" and "have good experience in X" etc.

When they ask what you are currently being paid then you have a decision to make as to whether you want to disclose that. They will find out anyway if you start working for them when they receive your p45 tax info. In the above example, even if you are on 22k and you are interested at the higher end, that's still perfectly acceptable to tell a company you are on 22k but you are interested in a role for 30k. Yes they may use what you are on now to try to knock you down but it's largely irrelevant. You might only be interested in the higher amount because frankly, you want a pay rise, or the commute changes with this job and travel costs go up, or due to the extra capacity required for the role. It doesn't really matter. The onus is on them to make you an offer.

It's also not rude to go back with the first offer and ask for more. Company's expect this and deal with it all the time. They offer you 24k... "Thank you for your offer as discussed, but I would be happier going into this role with a base salary of 28k." Or your agent that and they negotiate on your behalf. Often they have already decided what you are worth and they will come back saying no, we can only go to 24k. That's when you decide whether to accept and it won't have put you in any negative position. If anything better, as you don't look a push over and/or desperate.

 

[ninjabib]

Good advice. Will let them know I cannot accept X as I have already stated.

 

[ninjabib]

Well the owner/MD just came back to me and said he understands my position and offered me an increase of £500 on X which is still well short of Y. He said that no one has entered the company on Y figure before even at the bottom.

He's also said he will give me another £500 in 6 months. Then put me onto Y figure from 1st Jan 2020 in 8 months.

Essentially he is saying if he gives me Y and other staff find out i started on Y not X they won't be happy but why agree to Y in our interview then?

Not sure how i feel about this. Opinions please?

 

[Josh]

Ask for that in writing and signed by him.

 

[peterwalkley]

...
Not sure how i feel about this. Opinions please?

Doesn't bode well for the future in my opinion. He could have been much more clear about that when you talked money during the interview instead of leading you on.

 

[ninjabib]

I am thinking along the same lines as you Peter.

If he said that at the time there would have been no problem, i could have taken it or left it. No hard feelings. Now i'm thinking is it going to be like this everytime i ask for something especially if it's deserved. It is still my slight preference as not only will i have certs in 2/3 years time but i will have relevant experience. Whilst working with the water board i would only have the certs.

I hate the fact this is no longer straight forward when the point of me stating my lowest acceptable salary was Y figure was to avoid this kind of thing.

 

[ninjabib]

Spoke to him again and he's said he is happy to put everything down in writing and signed. Also said will include me in the company bonus scheme starting from day 1 which is normally only offered after a years service. This is paid out twice a year so I've accepted

The water board have put my start date back nearly a month as well on top of the original start date which is no use.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

You made your mind up long before anyone in this thread gave you their opinion tbh.

This is what I’d have done (had they offered me X).

Me: “Sorry, I can’t accept anything less than Y”
Them: “...but no one has started on that before”
Me: “Not my problem. I have set out my expectation in the interview and I’m not willing to accept anything less”
Them: “we will get you on the bonus scheme from day 1”
Me: “I’d rather the money is built in to the salary than a bonus scheme”
Them: “We can get you a rise by 2020”
Me: “Sorry, I’ve been in this situation before. I’ve had other offers and I don’t want to accept the job on a promise”

Having it in writing is all well and good but what if he says “sorry, business is down we can’t afford a rise” or that you aren’t eligible for the bonus because of poor company performance?

 

[ninjabib]

Yes it is a possibility i must admit. I just need to get in, do well and trust he will see it through. He said he will put it in writing within the contract. If it is my new contract that he is drafting up how can he legally avoid it?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I imagine that he’d word it so that any offer will be subject to the performance of the business.

Realistically he only needs to say that he “can’t support it” for “business reasons” and you’re screwed. A bit like half of the UK got shafted when the financial collapse occurred.... it didn’t matter if you were in banking or a cabbie, all employers hid behind the “recession” as an excuse regardless of the profits they made.

For instance, the business I joined in 2008 was a family run affair and made a net profit of £5,000,000 but refused to give anyone a pay rise. Be wary, as it’s likely you’re going to be waiting for a rise that never appears.

My advice would be to keep on to him and not “wait another month or two” for him to raise it. If he’s promised a 6 monthly review then go back in 5 months and 29 days