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Mantle vS 780Ti in BF4

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Th0nt said:
Is this your way of sticking up for poor old greg? ;)

If anyone takes stick it's generally as they have holes in their arguments or hang their neck out too far over something trivial.

The only annoying thing about these threads is there is pages of posts and only a handful of genuinely good information (oh and graphs) :p
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I don't take these threads seriously, I would rather go away and test it for myself than rely on dodgy graphs and opinions from iffy websites.

I also think that anyone on the OCUK forums who posts their experiences and findings nearly always gives good info, sometimes it's not what we want to hear but more often than not it is correct.
 
Kaapstad said:
I don't take these threads seriously, I would rather go away and test it for myself than rely on dodgy graphs and opinions from iffy websites.

I also think that anyone on the OCUK forums who posts their experiences and findings nearly always gives good info, sometimes it's not what we want to hear but more often than not it is correct.
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100% agree.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
In 1 game (so far).
Also, it's possible that people that buy those CPU don't just play games. Playing games isn't the only reason to have a CPU.

Anyone would think that BF4 is the only reason people own a PC...
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What i'm saying is not any less relevant, i'm not speaking about, or to those who have such a CPU.
The vast majority do not have £750 CPU's, even if they have one or two top GPU's. yet they can get that level, or perhaps even better with their mainstream CPU. it speaks to those who do not have a £750 CPU, cannot afford one and yet can still get its performance in what is the most popular game going at the moment, and more to come.
 
Kaapstad said:
I don't take these threads seriously, I would rather go away and test it for myself than rely on dodgy graphs and opinions from iffy websites.

I also think that anyone on the OCUK forums who posts their experiences and findings nearly always gives good info, sometimes it's not what we want to hear but more often than not it is correct.
Click to expand...

+1 in a nut shell. Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I could probably run up medium settings with one Ti and average the same as TechReports findings with medium settings. But it doesn't really bother me how accurate or in accurate the graphs are. I look at it and think well the Ti is doing well there, but I know that the 290X should be performing better. I put this down to gremlins with the 14.1s personally and move on.

Graph wars is always entertaining though, but I hope onlookers don't use it as a basis to choose their GPU LOL :D
 
MjFrosty said:
+1 in a nut shell. Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I could probably run up medium settings with one Ti and average the same as TechReports findings with medium settings. But it doesn't really bother me how accurate or in accurate the graphs are. I look at it and think well the Ti is doing well there, but I know that the 290X should be performing better. I put this down to gremlins with the 14.1s personally and move on.

Graph wars is always entertaining though, but I hope onlookers don't use it as a basis to choose their GPU LOL :D
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Might i refer you to post #279.

Gregster said:
Looked and no idea. Explain to me in laymen terms what Thetechreport did wrong.
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They said their BF4 results are as such because of something that does not even exist in BF4, whats more they then used that to argue this is why NV are faster in DX than AMD in Mantle, i repeat, the thing they say gives NV the edge over Mantle in BF4 does not exist in BF4.

I cannot get any more laymen than that.

BF4's creator is pretty Laymen about it himself.

Originally Posted By repi (Johan Anderson)
In our experience, DX11 deferred contexts give no performance gains at all, the opposite actually, so have completely given up on it which is sad but true.
See my slide #34 here:
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This is why he helped create Mantle, this is the reason for Mantle, its why he wants Nvidia to move to Mantle, this is the reason Nvidia using any DX path cannot be better than Mantle, which is the reason the TR article is utter nonsense.

Response to...

Originally Posted by Priyadarshi
I am skeptical about the performance gains to be achieved from Mantle. True that the current DX driver stack is deep and adds an overhead but you would only see large gains when it is actually a bottleneck. DX11 already has deferred contexts which allows multiple CPU cores to feed the GPU using display lists.
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TR's credibility has just gone out the window.
 
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humbug said:
Might i refer you to post #279.

TR's credibility has just gone out the window.
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The only credibility gone out of the window is yours, the other day to prove a point you were telling me that bf4 did support command lists and throwing about insults, now because of a different article and a quote from your chum you are trying to discredit the article and you now admit that bf4 does not use command lists and instead of recognising the other titles that clearly do benefit from command lists you are saying that there are no circumstances where a mantle path can posibly be slower than any other method, which is just blind brand loyalty to the point of absurdity
 
humbug said:
What i'm saying is not any less relevant, i'm not speaking about, or to those who have such a CPU.
The vast majority do not have £750 CPU's, even if they have one or two top GPU's. yet they can get that level, or perhaps even better with their mainstream CPU. it speaks to those who do not have a £750 CPU, cannot afford one and yet can still get its performance in what is the most popular game going at the moment, and more to come.
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World of Warcraft?
Dota 2?
GTA V?
Assassin's Creed 4?
Guild Wars 2?

:)
 
Yes, or no. i don't have the figure ^^^^ and All would work so much better with Mantle :)

andybird123 said:
The only credibility gone out of the window is yours, the other day to prove a point you were telling me that bf4 did support command lists and throwing about insults, now because of a different article and a quote from your chum you are trying to discredit the article and you now admit that bf4 does not use command lists and instead of recognising the other titles that clearly do benefit from command lists you are saying that there are no circumstances where a mantle path can posibly be slower than any other method, which is just blind brand loyalty to the point of absurdity
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I don't remember saying that BF4 Did use command lists, i would be grateful if you could point me to where i said that.

Whatever way Nvidia do CPU multithreading its the same way AMD do it in DX, i explained it a few pages back. i'm not going to repeat it. however. for both AMD and Nvidia this involves pushing it through DX, which is crap and painfully slow.
Hence the reason for Mantle.
 
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Ian Evey said:
Run fraps, tick boxes for desired output, under fps tab, min/max/ave, then press F11 while in any game to benchmark that level or part of the game you want to benchmark, It stores it under c:/Fraps/Benchmark and open it with wordpad or whatever you like.
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Excellent thanks, thought was something Afterburner did and I hadn't seen
 
humbug said:
Yes, or no. i don't have the figure ^^^^ and All would work so much better with Mantle :)



I don't remember saying that BF4 Did use command lists, i would be grateful if you could point me to where i said that.

Whatever way Nvidia do CPU multithreading its the same way AMD do it in DX, i explained it a few pages back. i'm not going to repeat it. however. for both AMD and Nvidia this involves pushing it through DX, which is crap and painfully slow.
Hence the reason for Mantle.
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You created a little list of games that used it, you (correctly) put bf3 but you also added bf4 after id already said theyd dropped it... If you cant keep up with your own lies im not going to help you keep track of which ones you want to remember

NVIDIA fully support driver multithreading using command lists, Amd do not, it shows in the titles that Do use command lists where a cpu bottleneck shows up, like civ5 for example
 
humbug said:
There is no doubt Nvidia extensions have the edge in CPU threading vs AMD in DX, but its nothing to do with Microsoft's DX thread batching, this is DICE optimising for those Nvidia extensions, they don't use DX Batching as its crap.

And Nvidia's extensions certainly are nowhere near AMD's Mantle.
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This is a lie, it is not nvidias extensions, it is that Nvidia fully support DX multithreading using deferred contexts and command lists, where as AMD do not instead DX has to emulate support, on nvidia cards the commands are properly multithreaded where as on AMD they all end up in a single extra thread
 
andybird123 said:
You created a little list of games that used it, you (correctly) put bf3 but you also added bf4 after id already said theyd dropped it... If you cant keep up with your own lies im not going to help you keep track of which ones you want to remember

NVIDIA fully support driver multithreading using command lists, Amd do not, it shows in the titles that Do use command lists where a cpu bottleneck shows up, like civ5 for example
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No i don't think i did, where did i say this? link me to it.

andybird123 said:
This is a lie, it is not nvidias extensions, it is that Nvidia fully support DX multithreading using deferred contexts and command lists, where as AMD do not instead DX has to emulate support, on nvidia cards the commands are properly multithreaded where as on AMD they all end up in a single extra thread
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Well, you have just stooped right into the gutter, i'm not lying, no matter how much you protest this, its a rancid reaction. And i think is very telling of your state of mind in this.

Command lists might be true for a 4 year old game like Civ5, that you keep citing. we are talking about BF4, your changing the subject discussion. command lists was dropped for BF4. look again at what Anderson said.


Originally Posted by Priyadarshi
I am skeptical about the performance gains to be achieved from Mantle. True that the current DX driver stack is deep and adds an overhead but you would only see large gains when it is actually a bottleneck. DX11 already has deferred contexts which allows multiple CPU cores to feed the GPU using display lists.
Click to expand...
Originally Posted By repi (Johan Anderson)
In our experience, DX11 deferred contexts give no performance gains at all, the opposite actually, so have completely given up on it which is sad but true.
See my slide #34 here:
Click to expand...
On AMD GPU's, "AMD they all end up in a single extra thread" it will utilise as many CPU threads as Nvidia in DX.
 
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Getting boring looking through OCUK forums lately, its just argument/baiting over and over!
Guys there is more to life than this, I used to log on with my phone to catch up with the latest during work hours but lately its just bickering, come on!
 
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