Mantle vS 780Ti in BF4

Ian Evey · 8 Feb 2014 at 08:40

Maybe we should have a "Review site credibility" thread, as it seems any review that does not show what forum members want to see all of a sudden gains some sort of hate club against those sites.

Seen this a few times recently, and is getting tedious.

Besty · 8 Feb 2014 at 08:42

Ian Evey said:
Maybe we should have a "Review site credibility" thread, as it seems any review that does not show what forum members want to see all of a sudden gains some sort of hate club against those sites.

Seen this a few times recently, and gets tedious.

A very sensible suggestion.

Gregster · 8 Feb 2014 at 08:59

Ian Evey said:
Maybe we should have a "Review site credibility" thread, as it seems any review that does not show what forum members want to see all of a sudden gains some sort of hate club against those sites.

Seen this a few times recently, and is getting tedious.

A good idea but it would end up as a graph war/silly bickering.

~Mike~ · 8 Feb 2014 at 09:24

evohicks said:
Getting boring looking through OCUK forums lately, its just argument/baiting over and over!
Guys there is more to life than this, I used to log on with my phone to catch up with the latest during work hours but lately its just bickering, come on!

This.

No point trying to look for useful info in the graphics forum anymore as it's just full of 'regular' members who just like to fight/argue/post rubbish. There are even threads that don't belong in this section.

It's become a cesspit. Hopefully the mods will start taking some action to clean it up.

Silent_Scone · 8 Feb 2014 at 09:32

LOL @ credibility going out the window and pretending to be offended. When did this become the House of Commons

.

So a slight wrong in Battlefield 4 and DX which you made yourself Humbug is the entire undoing of a long standing website, even though what he is saying stands true in a lot of recent games.

The same way John Carmack's credibility went out the window the day his experience conflicted with your own vast knowledge on NV extensions.

I'm not arguing, just relaying some bullet points

.

Angrybird, save your breath fella lol. Literally no point posting these links when some people obviously know better.

Edit: Morning

Ian Evey · 8 Feb 2014 at 09:56

Gregster said:
A good idea but it would end up as a graph war/silly bickering.

True, would not really be any different than some sensible / interesting threads "like this one and the mantle threads" that seem to turn into forum members knowing better.

andybird123 · 8 Feb 2014 at 11:16

m

MjFrosty said:
LOL @ credibility going out the window and pretending to be offended. When did this become the House of Commons .

So a slight wrong in Battlefield 4 and DX which you made yourself Humbug is the entire undoing of a long standing website, even though what he is saying stands true in a lot of recent games.

The same way John Carmack's credibility went out the window the day his experience conflicted with your own vast knowledge on NV extensions.

I'm not arguing, just relaying some bullet points .

Angrybird, save your breath fella lol. Literally no point posting these links when some people obviously know better.

Edit: Morning

I just find the hypocrisy hilarious

humbug said:
Command lists are Multicore compute / rendering strings. and AMD do support it.

It a part of DX11, with command lists you can use different CPU threads to handle different tasks simultaneously. its those so call multithreaded games. Metro 2033, Crysis 2, BF3 and BF4...... and i do believe the Star Swarm app.

Not every DX11 game is coded with DX command lists, it depends on developers; A, having the skill and; B, having the inclination to do it.
Its not easy in DX, infact its very difficult and costly.
Besides that, 8 threads used in mantle is vastly faster than 8 thread in DX command lists.

I'm still waiting for you to send me that link wich shows "they have not implemented DX command lists" in the Star Swarm app, its creator said they had spend a long time optimizing for DX long before Mantle was even known about.
So i would like to know where you are getting your info from.

there, you said that all multithreaded games including BF4 used command lists
you also seem to still not flat out get it that AMD drivers do not properly support command lists, me even having given you half a dozen links to articles and forum posts from DX developers showing that they don't

you've also not acknowledged the half dozen times that I've pointed out that the star swarm output file says "deferred contexts: disabled"

I can't find any reference to Crysis 3 using deferred contexts but I know that Star Citizen will be, and as they are using Mantle too that will be a very interesting test of the two methods

Jono8 · 8 Feb 2014 at 12:47

LtMatt said:
They used Medium/High settings.

A 290x is over 25% faster than a 290 in that graph? Weird...

GoogalyMoogaly · 8 Feb 2014 at 12:59

Jono8 said:
A 290x is over 25% faster than a 290 in that graph? Weird...

I'm also sure that LtMatt posted a video of him running 290 CF using DX and even using the recording software (which reduces FPS) we was getting more than 110fps. And that would be 100% scaling in CF under DX. I'm sure Matt was getting around 150fps or more which would suggest 200% scaling in CF?

Still I think the important thing is that these graphs show a 290X outperforming a Ti, which is the important bit, not if the information is accurate or not.

Ian Evey · 8 Feb 2014 at 13:03

This OCUK shop is pretty nifty, getting a 780 right now.

humbug · 8 Feb 2014 at 13:20

LtMatt said:
Good spot Humbug. I hope you tweet Scott Wasson this, will be interesting to see his reply.

I did, it seemed to have killed the conversation. he stopped talking to me after i gave him the link. its a shame actually, his buddy Ryan was much more reasonable over the "has issues" thing, i think it was? he clearly changed the way he did a few things after that conversation, i have quite a lot of respect for Ryan. even though he's still a bit of a

LtMatt · 8 Feb 2014 at 13:27

Jono8 said:
A 290x is over 25% faster than a 290 in that graph? Weird...

The reference 290 and 290X cards in the Guru3D benchmarks sit at 94C so are throttling. This will account for the difference vs a non throttling, cooler running AIB 290.

EDIT

Almost forgot, the MSI 290X also has a 4% overclock.

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I'm also sure that LtMatt posted a video of him running 290 CF using DX and even using the recording software (which reduces FPS) we was getting more than 110fps. And that would be 100% scaling in CF under DX. I'm sure Matt was getting around 150fps or more which would suggest 200% scaling in CF?

Still I think the important thing is that these graphs show a 290X outperforming a Ti, which is the important bit, not if the information is accurate or not.

I did but that was multiplayer. Its actually less demanding on the gpu than single player is, the majority of the time. Golmud Railway (the map i benched) is one the easiest on the fps.

Gregster · 8 Feb 2014 at 13:39

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I'm also sure that LtMatt posted a video of him running 290 CF using DX and even using the recording software (which reduces FPS) we was getting more than 110fps. And that would be 100% scaling in CF under DX. I'm sure Matt was getting around 150fps or more which would suggest 200% scaling in CF?

Still I think the important thing is that these graphs show a 290X outperforming a Ti, which is the important bit, not if the information is accurate or not.

Where is "The1Gooner"? I wanted to ask him something important

whyscotty · 8 Feb 2014 at 13:55

Gregster said:
Where is "The1Gooner"? I wanted to ask him something important

-

Ian Evey · 8 Feb 2014 at 14:32

I could think of 5 reasons he won't answer

thefogo · 8 Feb 2014 at 14:41

LtMatt said:
The reference 290 and 290X cards in the Guru3D benchmarks sit at 94C so are throttling. This will account for the difference vs a non throttling, cooler running AIB 290.

The ASUS DCUII is also 25% slower. It's only 1fps better than the reference card.

Gregster · 8 Feb 2014 at 14:42

Ian Evey said:
I could think of 5 reasons he won't answer

Well the "1" Gooner is pretty spot on

LtMatt · 8 Feb 2014 at 15:15

thefogo said:
The ASUS DCUII is also 25% slower. It's only 1fps better than the reference card.

Think its just a case of the 290X benefits greatly from an AIB cooling solution. HardOCP found 290X XFX's AIB cards faster than 290X reference card. Likely due to lower temps so less power tune interference. Don't forget there have been game updates to Battlefield 4, which included performance improvements as well. Some of the results in that Guru bench are from back in November. The 290X MSI and Gigabyte results are recent though.

Final8y · 8 Feb 2014 at 15:21

evohicks said:
Getting boring looking through OCUK forums lately, its just argument/baiting over and over!
Guys there is more to life than this, I used to log on with my phone to catch up with the latest during work hours but lately its just bickering, come on!

+1

triss · 8 Feb 2014 at 20:22

LtMatt said:
Think its just a case of the 290X benefits greatly from an AIB cooling solution. HardOCP found 290X XFX's AIB cards faster than 290X reference card. Likely due to lower temps so less power tune interference. Don't forget there have been game updates to Battlefield 4, which included performance improvements as well. Some of the results in that Guru bench are from back in November. The 290X MSI and Gigabyte results are recent though.

i could be wrong but i think there referring to the reference 290x being so much faster than both the reference 290 and the AiB 290, so the 290x AiB cooking doesnt come into it,,i could be wrong though too early in the moring for me to do maths need a coffeee