Manual driver to Automatic DSG

[NeoVo]

Don't worry, it only takes one incident of retrieving your teeth from the steering wheel for the penny to drop.

I can vouch for this, my first time driving an automatic was a mustang in America on the "wrong" side of the road!

My car is a manual, my wifes is an DSG.
I enjoy driving both and adapt instantly with either, but personally wouldn't own an auto without flappy paddles; I think they are more engaging to drive.

 

[jigger]

I could not disagree more. I cannot think of a single thing about either of those gearboxes that was better than the 8 speed. Especially the 5 speed, which made me buy a 5 Series with a manual gearbox to avoid it!

For me, it was the 8 speed that really changed things. It is in my view the best automatic gearbox ever made and it is unlikely anything will change that now with the future being electric.

The ratios of the 7/8 (Merc) wasn’t wide enough for me. Completely OTT for most cars IMO.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The ratios of the 7/8 (Merc) wasn’t wide enough for me. Completely OTT for most cars IMO.

I wasn't talking about the Mercedes one, I was talking about the direct replacement for the two you mentioned. The 6 speed was replaced by the 8 speed in around 2008. It is an excellent automatic gearbox and is better than the previous one in every possible way.

No idea why you'd ignore the replacement from the same manufacturer and instead compare it to something from Mercedes

 

[jigger]

I wasn't talking about the Mercedes one, I was talking about the direct replacement for the two you mentioned. The 6 speed was replaced by the 8 speed in around 2008. It is an excellent automatic gearbox and is better than the previous one in every possible way.

No idea why you'd ignore the replacement from the same manufacturer and instead compare it to something from Mercedes

Oh I don’t know, because it’s a very similar gearbox in both. 8 ratios can only be so far apart yay see.

 

[Maundie]

Went from manual to auto around 5 years ago, never going back also Mrs was set against the auto but now says she wouldn't have anything other, plant your left foot on the rest and you shouldn't have any issues but as people have said if you hit the brake pedal with your left foot be prepared to smack the steering wheel.

 

[jigger]

Went from manual to auto around 5 years ago, never going back also Mrs was set against the auto but now says she wouldn't have anything other, plant your left foot on the rest and you shouldn't have any issues but as people have said if you hit the brake pedal with your left foot be prepared to smack the steering wheel.

My wife is completely the opposite. I’ve given up now.

 

[Penfold101]

Automatic/electric with adaptive cruise control - the only way to deal with motorway traffic.

 

[Nasher]

It’s definitely a thing I’ve noticed on VAG cars. I’d lean toward a manual or look elsewhere if I was buying one.

I think 5/6 speed ZF was probably peak auto for most cars and driving situations. The focus was on being good and reliable, rather than a few tenths faster at selecting a gear and 10kg lighter.

The actual throttle on VWs is quite laggy despite the gearbox tbh. They have been like that for a long time. Not sure what the reason is.

Downshifting can be an issue on automatics, they can be really slow.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Oh I don’t know, because it’s a very similar gearbox in both. 8 ratios can only be so far apart yay see.

The point is that the shifting is so fast and almost unnoticeable that it's almost never not in the right gear for whatever you want to do. It works and it works very well. It doesn't have too many ratios.

I have never seen anyone argue that the older 5 speed is better than the 8 speed before. There could be any number of reasons why the Mercedes one isn't as good so it's far more reasonable to stick to the same manufacturer for comparison purposes and the 8 speed is simply a better gearbox than the 5 and 6 speed versions before it.

The 5 speed wasn't for me at all, I bought a manual to avoid it. The 6 speed was better but the 8 speed was so good that from the moment I tried it I've never bought or wanted another car that doesn't have it.

 

[jigger]

The point is that the shifting is so fast and almost unnoticeable that it's almost never not in the right gear for whatever you want to do. It works and it works very well.

I have never seen anyone argue that the older 5 speed is better than the 8 speed before. There could be any number of reasons why the Mercedes one isn't as good so it's far more reasonable to stick to the same manufacturer for comparison purposes and the 8 speed is simply a better gearbox than the 5 and 6 speed versions before it.

The 5 speed wasn't for me at all, I bought a manual to avoid it. The 6 speed was better but the 8 speed was so good that from the moment I tried it I've never bought or wanted another car that doesn't have it.

Great, if not noticing is what you’re looking for in a car a place value on it. I much preferred the ZF 5 and 6 speeds more than smooth and responsive enough and better devised ratio’s IMO.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The point in not noticing is that it doesn't matter that it might shift from 8th to 7th in a situation the old one would have stayed in 5th. You're not having to change gear yourself so why does it matter that it has more ratios - it means it's always in the right gear.

The 8 speed is smoother than the 5 speed, quicker to shift and more efficient. I can't think of a single thing the 5 speed did better. It was slow to shift and resulted in considerably poorer fuel efficiency and reduced acceleration over the manual. It was quite smooth around town but then of course so is the 8 speed.

It wasn't even that reliable!

Personal preference is fair enough but the idea the old 5 speed was the best automatic couldn't go unchallenged

 

[jigger]

The point in not noticing is that it doesn't matter that it might shift from 8th to 7th in a situation the old one would have stayed in 5th. You're not having to change gear yourself so why does it matter that it has more ratios - it means it's always in the right gear.

The 8 speed is smoother than the 5 speed, quicker to shift and more efficient. I can't think of a single thing the 5 speed did better. It was slow to shift and resulted in considerably poorer fuel efficiency and reduced acceleration over the manual. It was quite smooth around town but then of course so is the 8 speed.

It wasn't even that reliable!

Personal preference is fair enough but the idea the old 5 speed was the best automatic couldn't go unchallenged

If not noticing isn’t the point why mention it.. if the economy is slightly better I don’t know, but if you’re looking for an auto economy is somewhat moot to start with.

Why have a gearbox change 5/6 times when it can change 7/8 times.

 

[ChrisLandin]

Thanks for all the input fellas. Greatly appreciated

 

[jigger]

Is it the GTD 200? I was considering one and it was up there. I only test drove it and DSG aside it was very good.

 

[[TW]Fox]

If not noticing isn’t the point why mention it..

Because additional ratios are only an issue with a gearbox if it is constantly changing gear - if you don't notice it doing what it does then the extra ratios are therefore not a problem, surely?

if the economy is slightly better I don’t know, but if you’re looking for an auto economy is somewhat moot to start with.

It's not slightly better, its considerably better. My manual 530i was about 25% more fuel efficient than my Dads automatic 530i with the 5 speed gearbox. Modern automatic gearboxes such as the 8 speed are equally efficient if not even more so than a manual gearbox. The improvement made from 2008 with the introduction of the 8 speed gearbox was significant.

Why have a gearbox change 5/6 times when it can change 7/8 times.

Have you actually driven a car with the gearbox in question fitted? You seem convinced that more ratios is a bad thing when in reality it is a good thing - try a BMW with the 8 speed gearbox and you'll not find anything about it which isn't better than a BMW with the 5 speed gearbox. Everything the 5 speed does well, the 8 speed does well and everything the 5 speed does that isn't that good is fixed with the 8 speed. It is a fantastic gearbox and since my first car with it fitted I've never wanted any other gearbox in a car I buy.

This from somebody who, when the 5 speed gearbox was around, disliked automatics so much I spent ages trying to find a manual instead just to avoid it...

I think what has happened here is you've driven a car with an average gearbox that happened to have 8 ratios and assume that it was merely average because of that. There are various 8 speed gearboxes out that there are just not very good, but the ZF 8 Speed is not one of them. I have also driven a few Mercedes with the 7 and 8 speed systems and not thought they were amazing, so if thats what you've tried then that might explain it..

 

[jigger]

Because additional ratios are only an issue with a gearbox if it is constantly changing gear - if you don't notice it doing what it does then the extra ratios are therefore not a problem, surely?



It's not slightly better, its considerably better. My manual 530i was about 25% more fuel efficient than my Dads automatic 530i with the 5 speed gearbox. Modern automatic gearboxes such as the 8 speed are equally efficient if not even more so than a manual gearbox. The improvement made from 2008 with the introduction of the 8 speed gearbox was significant.



Have you actually driven a car with the gearbox in question fitted? You seem convinced that more ratios is a bad thing when in reality it is a good thing - try a BMW with the 8 speed gearbox and you'll not find anything about it which isn't better than a BMW with the 5 speed gearbox. Everything the 5 speed does well, the 8 speed does well and everything the 5 speed does that isn't that good is fixed with the 8 speed. It is a fantastic gearbox and since my first car with it fitted I've never wanted any other gearbox in a car I buy.

This from somebody who, when the 5 speed gearbox was around, disliked automatics so much I spent ages trying to find a manual instead just to avoid it...

I think what has happened here is you've driven a car with an average gearbox that happened to have 8 ratios and assume that it was merely average because of that. There are various 8 speed gearboxes out that there are just not very good, but the ZF 8 Speed is not one of them. I have also driven a few Mercedes with the 7 and 8 speed systems and not thought they were amazing, so if thats what you've tried then that might explain it..

I have, preferred the 5 and 6 speed ZF. Found them to be excellent. I also preferred them holding in gear longer.

The difference fuel economy is likely down to more than just the gearbox TBH.

Have you driven cars with all the different versions?

 

[Penfold101]

I loved the Mercedes 9 speed auto used throughout the range - only trouble being it wouldn’t change into ninth till I was doing 75mph, so I’d have to break the speed limit to drive the most economically…

 

[[TW]Fox]

The difference fuel economy is likely down to more than just the gearbox TBH.

Older automatics were a considerable drain on fuel efficiency, newer ones are not.

Have you driven cars with all the different versions?

I have owned 3 cars with the 8 speed version and driven many others and my Dad had a 2002 530i Auto with the 5 speed version at the same time as I had a 2001 530i manual. I've also driven numerous 3 and 5 Series with the 6 speed version.

So, yes.

I appreciate that my experience of the 5 and 6 speed versions was many years ago - most were new or nearly new cars at the time - but they are very old gearboxes that were replaced in 2008 so they're increasingly uncommon to ever find now.

The 5 and 6 speed put me off enough that when looking for cars with them fitted (E39 530i in 2006 and E92 335i in 2011) I went out of my way to buy a manual version instead. But when the 8 speed was released it changed everything. It's that good that I never wanted another manual again.

 

[ahenners]

I have, preferred the 5 and 6 speed ZF. Found them to be excellent. I also preferred them holding in gear longer.

The difference fuel economy is likely down to more than just the gearbox TBH.

Have you driven cars with all the different versions?

Why on earth did you prefer them holding in gear longer? I had a 2010 330d with the ZF 6 speed, it felt like it was holding gears longer than necessary in every day driving, compared to how I'd drive it if it was a manual, therefore unnecessarily wasting fuel. I've never once given it thought in my 520d with ZF 8 speed.

I can't think of a single thing about that 6 speed that was better.

 

[jigger]

Older automatics were a considerable drain on fuel efficiency, newer ones are not.




I have owned 3 cars with the 8 speed version and driven many others and my Dad had a 2002 530i Auto with the 5 speed version at the same time as I had a 2001 530i manual. I've also driven numerous 3 and 5 Series with the 6 speed version.

So, yes.

I appreciate that my experience of the 5 and 6 speed versions was many years ago - most were new or nearly new cars at the time - but they are very old gearboxes that were replaced in 2008 so they're increasingly uncommon to ever find now.

The 5 and 6 speed put me off enough that when looking for cars with them fitted (E39 530i in 2006 and E92 335i in 2011) I went out of my way to buy a manual version instead. But when the 8 speed was released it changed everything. It's that good that I never wanted another manual again.

Possibly slightly less than me then. Actually I think one might have been a 9 speed IIRC. Not sure what gearbox that was though. Seemingly unending number of gear changes was so annoying at times.

I’m surprised you couldn’t agree more TBH.