Manual driver to Automatic DSG

jigger said:
Possibly slightly less than me then. Actually I think one might have been a 9 speed IIRC. Not sure what gearbox that was though. Seemingly unending number of gear changes was so annoying at times.
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The 9 speed is for front wheel drive applications. It is not as well thought of as the 8 speed. I've driven other cars with other manufacturers 8 speed gearboxes fitted which were poor.

My point isn't that 'lots of ratios are amazing', my point is that the ZF 8 Speed gearbox specifically is the best automatic gearbox you can buy and that, as the direct replacement for the 6 speed, it is clearly better than those which were before it.

The 5 speed was launched in 1991. Do you really think automatic gearboxes were the best they could be in 1991 and didn't get any better over the next 3 decades?!
 
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[TW]Fox said:
The 9 speed is for front wheel drive applications. It is not as well thought of as the 8 speed.

My point isn't that 'lots of ratios are amazing', my point is that the ZF 8 Speed gearbox specifically is the best automatic gearbox you can buy.
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I don’t know if that’s right at all. Are you talking about BMW again? It definitely wasn’t front wheel drive.

Edit: Just looked, Merc GLC longitudinally mounted rear and 4matic drive trains. 9 speed auto.
 
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jigger said:
I don’t know if that’s right at all. Are you talking about BMW again? It definitely wasn’t front wheel drive.
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I'm talking about gearboxes from the same manufacturer as the 5 and 6 speed you mention.

As soon as we start adding different manufacturers we add too many variables, so to keep it simple all of my points relate specifically to one manufacturer of automatic gearboxes.
 
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[TW]Fox said:
I'm talking about gearboxes from the same manufacturer as the 5 and 6 speed you mention.

As soon as we start adding different manufacturers we add too many variables, so to keep it simple all of my points relate specifically to one manufacturer of automatic gearboxes.
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OK, I think the 5/6 speed ZF was peak auto gearbox. It was you that mentioned 7/8 speed.
 
[TW]Fox said:
So you think automatic gearboxes never got any better than they were in 1991.

We're obviously never going to agree on this :D
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Is a 2000 7 series better than the later 7 series? Are the old Mercedes better than the later models? That’s a hard question… Yes in most regards?
 
[TW]Fox said:
So you think automatic gearboxes never got any better than they were in 1991.

We're obviously never going to agree on this :D
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The 8 speed auto in the bmw m135i I test drove a couple years ago was great, extremely smooth, better than the DSG in my GTI and RS3

But the 8 speed auto in the Ford Mustang I test drove was horrible, much worse than DSG even, extremely jerky.

So it's a real hit and miss but some auto boxes are amazing. It's the same with CVT gearboxes, the difference in experience between models of cars is huge, some CVT are completely trash and some are quite decent
 
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To echo many posters, other than the occasional automatic hired people carrier I've been exclusively manual up until my current BMW with the frankly superb ZF8 automatic. I'm a total convert now and unless it was something super sporty I was buying, automatic all the way for me.
 
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I've got an auto with a ZF8 and a pair of 6 speed manuals, the ZF8 equipped car is all fine & nice to drive, butter smooth etc. But just like the older DSG box I had in our old Octavia, I find that in more complex situations it can be confused & end up feeling laggy as you need a gear it doesn't expect which is rather irritating. Sure you can stick it in manual & use the paddles, but that requires looking down at the HUD or Dash to figure out what gear you are in first, a manual requires no thought.

For driving enjoyment, i'll still take a 6 speed manual over it, in fact I still prefer a manual outside of city centres & traffic jams in all instances.
 
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jigger said:
Is a 2000 7 series better than the later 7 series? Are the old Mercedes better than the later models? That’s a hard question… Yes in most regards?
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Not really the same thing is it. Those who argue an old BMW is better than a newer one are not doing so because they think the technology is better. A gearbox is not something where people are concerned about or interested in styling or any other subjective things that make some people prefer a 2000 7 series over a 2016 one.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Not really the same thing is it. Those who argue an old BMW is better than a newer one are not doing so because they think the technology is better. A gearbox is not something where people are concerned about or interested in styling or any other subjective things that make some people prefer a 2000 7 series over a 2016 one.
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Just googled. The ZF 5 speed was produced from 1991 and was still been fitted to cars into 2010. ZF must have got something right.
 
Iamzod said:
I've got an auto with a ZF8 and a pair of 6 speed manuals, the ZF8 equipped car is all fine & nice to drive, butter smooth etc. But just like the older DSG box I had in our old Octavia, I find that in more complex situations it can be confused & end up feeling laggy as you need a gear it doesn't expect which is rather irritating. Sure you can stick it in manual & use the paddles, but that requires looking down at the HUD or Dash to figure out what gear you are in first, a manual requires no thought.

For driving enjoyment, i'll still take a 6 speed manual over it, in fact I still prefer a manual outside of city centres & traffic jams in all instances.
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I find driving around in sport mode usually makes the occasional issues go away. I then stick it in comfort when driving on A roads or motorways where I'm sitting at a decent speed for longer distances and don't have much stopping and starting
 
uber soldat said:
Automatics are for noobs. Manual is where it's at.
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Always thought that myself. Even after moving to Australia where manuals are cheaper and pretty rare and drove a few bog standard autos as hire cars or borrowed cars and thought they were sluggish and awful. Then I moved from a V8 manual HSV Clubsport to an auto S5 Audi which to be honest I didn't like at first until the dealer put the hard sell on me and it completely changed my life. Since then I've had a C63, RR Sport and now an X3M40i all in auto (not even sure if they make a manual in this market) and would never go back.
 
Vandle said:
Always thought that myself. Even after moving to Australia where manuals are cheaper and pretty rare and drove a few bog standard autos as hire cars or borrowed cars and thought they were sluggish and awful. Then I moved from a V8 manual HSV Clubsport to an auto S5 Audi which to be honest I didn't like at first until the dealer put the hard sell on me and it completely changed my life. Since then I've had a C63, RR Sport and now an X3M40i all in auto (not even sure if they make a manual in this market) and would never go back.
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In Australia and NZ like 90% of the cars are automatics
 
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