Manual Handling Laws/Rules etc
- Thread starter Unicorn
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I assume you have taken your CSCS test? if you have it contains basic Manual Handling. If you're not happy they should give you assistance.
We are now cutting concrete blocks in half because they are too heavy for repetitive lifting, anyone who says we don't take H&S seriously needs to come and have a look what we do.
We are now cutting concrete blocks in half because they are too heavy for repetitive lifting, anyone who says we don't take H&S seriously needs to come and have a look what we do.
Associate
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I was aware of this in principle but haven't heard a case where this has actually happened and the fines i have seen imposed have been a drop in the ocean compared to the size of the company.
Happy to be proved wrong though, would be interested to see any cases.
Soldato
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Nout wrong with only lifting what your happy with no matter how long it takes mate. Don't let people bully you.
I now teach manual handling at my work and first rule of lifting is get someone else or a machine to lift it if you can. Its not worth struggling.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcT9-jljl3I
I now teach manual handling at my work and first rule of lifting is get someone else or a machine to lift it if you can. Its not worth struggling.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcT9-jljl3I
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Its donkeys years since i've worked with a contractor that hasnt been 100% bang on with HSE, the bigger guys are obviously better set up but even the small contractors whose work is often outside of cdm are still well clued up. Maybe its just the contractors we deal with.
Deleted member 651465
Deleted member 651465
I've personally stopped work at multi million pound installations because work has been deemed unsafe. I've also organised an annual spend of £20,000 on PPE because I could save 4-5x that on PI claims. Businesses listen if you talk money, but it swings both ways and I agree they are more likely to flaunt the rules as much as they feel they can get away with.
In my experience, it's when you stop work because of minor things that get employers backs up.
These days with Fee For Intervention (FFI), companies cannot afford an HSE inspector sniffing around because of an incident. With random on site inspections down, they only need a RIDDOR reportable incident to come through to give them the ammunition they need to turn up.
One serious incident could shut a site for a week, the average cost for a FFI is £20,000 and interestingly what some businesses fail to remember is payment of the FFI invoice is actually an admission of a failure on their part, so the onus is on them to prove their innocence as fast as possible.. Whilst dealing with any prohibition notices etc.
Chartered Safety advisor here
The principle contractor has a duty to manage the subcontractor, including their employees. This is detailed in law, as well as the requirement to assess and manage the risk. There are specific regs that deal with manual handling but I'd be focusing on the management of the task.
The fact of the matter is, there should be some form of object handling risk assessment on the task, which explains the risks and the control measures in place to reduce them. This will take in to account the Task, Individual, Load, Environment and Other factors (TILEO).
1) have you been shown this? Possibly as part of a site induction or toolbox talk?
2) are there no alternatives to carrying 2 at a time? I can't believe this is a condoned working practice given the carry distances.
3) have you raised you concerns to your employer? What have they said?
Keeping active is the best thing for back pain, but you will want to challenge this, before you do serious damage to your back.
If they let you go because you're "a trouble maker", I'd consider it a blessing as you don't want to be working for someone that would flaunt their legal duties and mock the welfare of their staff.
The method statement and risk assessments for the permits to even be issued had to state a manual lifting aid was being used which is blatant lies as there cutting back on costs at the expense of employee's health. I can easily go and sort this but at risk of putting a lot of people in deep **** which is something i don't enjoy doing but then also i don't like being hurt. Iv already cut my hours back to my minimum possible to deal with this atleast short term until i get into the swing of things again.
There is toolbox talks on manual handling but again these state mechanical lifting aids or two man lifts which again don't follow proper lifting procedure as they lift and carry items on there shoulder, two 6m sections of unistrut on your shoulder isn't nice bouncing around on a two man lift i must say.
As to raising my concerns im going to have to now iv had time off and i will be reporting it as an injury despite the culture of people wanting there accident records to be nice so your encouraged not to really report. Plus if it ever accounts to something further down the line i have some comeback
Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
I'd be questioning why the RA states a lifting aid, if there isn't one available.
You shouldn't be concerned about reporting incidents, and certainly not about raising concerns. It's your legal duty to report h&s shortcomings to your employer, so you'd be actually "condoning" the bad practice if you didn't. How many others are in a similar position that could be harmed by not reporting it? Think about that.
Sounds to me like there are cultural issues at play, which are never easy to deal with. If you can speak to the principle contractor / your employer and get them to look at the task with you, they may see the issue from your perspective.
Cost cutting is not a legal defence. The law states that risks must be reduced "so far as reasonably practicable", which (from what you've said) they can't demonstrate. Don't go quoting law to them, they don't like that
D) but if you have a union representative, you may be able to raise your concerns through them.
I'd be questioning why the RA states a lifting aid, if there isn't one available.
You shouldn't be concerned about reporting incidents, and certainly not about raising concerns. It's your legal duty to report h&s shortcomings to your employer, so you'd be actually "condoning" the bad practice if you didn't. How many others are in a similar position that could be harmed by not reporting it? Think about that.
Sounds to me like there are cultural issues at play, which are never easy to deal with. If you can speak to the principle contractor / your employer and get them to look at the task with you, they may see the issue from your perspective.
Cost cutting is not a legal defence. The law states that risks must be reduced "so far as reasonably practicable", which (from what you've said) they can't demonstrate. Don't go quoting law to them, they don't like that
The principal contractor is my employer, I work directly for them but im subbed out to other companies for periods of time to hit my relevant units to complete my apprenticeship. Ill speak to my manager i report to tomorrow as he knows why iv been off as iv been reporting my sickness days to him and inform him of the reasoning behind it and see if something can get done about it and see if im within my rights to refuse to do it and they would back me up if it is excessive. I am always told if there is any issues don't do the work and come report to someone at offices and it will be sorted out but how much of that is talk and how much is what they would really do? Debatable
@LOAM
That was one idea of mine but then the specifications wouldn't work and more couplers etc would be needed so was told that can't happen. Id be happy to take afew 1m lengths up all day long id have a nice day doing that as it wouldn't be too heavy or too awkward for the stairs.
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Deleted member 651465
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Things are moving towards that end though a lot of companies haven't really realised I don't think and/or some stuff has yet to be actually tested in law.
But yeah at a day to day level H&S often is one of 2 extremes either barely more than an afterthought or pedantic to silly levels with very little common sense or consideration applied. In many companies I've worked for in the past its been a "bothersome" thing that usually results in the person bringing up H&S issues being marginalised and pushed out.
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Your employer (being the principle contractor) still has overall duty of care, so that's a good start (that you can go direct to them).
You are within your rights to not place yourself in a situation of harm. Section 7 of HSWA 1974 covers you here.
If they're a big company they should take your concern seriously, especially if you have a workplace related injury.
Thats good information right there, I won't go quoting stuff tomorrow as i am aware no one likes it when your prepared to go full on at someone with too much ammo. But i shall discuss it tomorrow and get something sorted out. I shall update the thread anyhow when iv got something ironed out or if iv gotten sacked for being the one causing trouble. Although im aware its much harder to sack an apprentice im sure they would figure it out
Not really, no. Some things are taken seriously but others aren't despite being against guidelines, against the company's own stated policy or just plain illegal.
The company I work for is actually rather good at H&S. There are proper COSHH risk assessments for everything from using washing up liquid to substances that could kill you, with the only exception being smoking and the waste from it. Every 6 months and every time any new chemical is brought on to the premises. There are manual handling courses and guidelines and risk assessments, checked regularly in case anything has changed. There's training.
And the company ignores the non-COSHH stuff as and when convenient except for pregnant women. Too much risk of bad publicity there, I presume. Most of the staff who've been there a long time have been damaged by policies that have nothing to do with the work itself but are designed to put the peasants in their place. It's illegal, but nothing has been, is being or will ever be done about it. If a peasant is used up, just get another one. The only response to the chronic medical problems caused by the company's policies is to cut sick pay so the company doesn't have to pay for them.
Then there's the "it's your fault" arrangements:
1) Employee is required to sign a form saying they've read the company guidelines about manual handling and will adhere to them.
2) Employee is required to greatly exceed those guidelines in order to get the work done in the time allowed.
If the employee is injured, then it's their fault - they're not adhering to the guidelines! The company is covered.
We routinely have people carrying 5-10 times the weight stated in the guidelines. It's impossible to get the job done in the time allocated without doing so. People openly joke about it, because what else can you do?
And I stress this is with a company that is relatively good for H&S for the people at the bottom (although getting worse, unsurprisingly).
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surely at 6m lengths you could erm "shufty" them up the outside using more than one person?