Manual Handling Laws/Rules etc

[Deleted member 651465]

Is manual handling picking stuff up?

Anything that requires pushing, pulling, lifting etc. To answer you in a word, yes.

The weight in question is 5Kg according to company paperwork.

The weight that needs to be moved around, including up and down flights of stairs, varies from 2.5Kg to 50Kg depending on which department you're working on and how busy it is. The weight is in coins, so while an outgoing float is a fixed weight (up to 20Kg) the amount that needs to be taken back in one go varies a great deal (up to 50Kg, but usually no more than 30Kg). Personally, I find it a problem. My knee is damaged (probably by the job, since chronic musculo-skeletal problems are a well known health and safety issue caused by company policy) and stairs are painful even without any weight.

Try this.. http://www.hse.gov.uk/MSd/mac/scoresheet.htm and see the guidance sheet.. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg383.pdf

Using the figures from the OP (36kg unistrut, 6m carry distance) I come up with scores that pretty much tell me this task carries a high level of risk. This mostly due to the carry distance, the obstacles and the load instability but still, you'd have a hard time arguing this in court with those scores.

In instances where the load changes with every lift, I would sit and watch someone carrying for an hour and with a stopwatch write down the lifting times, carry distances etc, then work out an average. It may be impossible for you to do this on you job, but using rough averages you could probably tell if a job required further assessment. From what you say about employees knowingly developing MSD (musculo skeletal disorders) then obviously you already know the answer.

That may well be true on paper, but in practice it isn't. I'm fairly familiar with relevant law and company policy and thus fairly familiar with several ways my employer isn't compliant with it and it doesn't matter.

It does matter. You may feel that they are invincible because they haven't been caught out, but one day it'll bite them and the enforcement authority would come down on them like a tonne of bricks. No pun intended.

Sure, I could complain and lose my job. How would that benefit me? I couldn't afford to take them to court (you have to pay nowadays, part of this government's reforms) and even if I could do so and I did win, I still wouldn't have a job. It's a big gamble for someone in my position (as very many people are).

I'm risking my job merely by making this post. Saying anything at all critical of the company is grounds for dismissal, even if it is true.

This is the way of the world. Trouble-makers are managed out of the business whenever a perceived "fuss" is caused. This isn't a new concept when it comes to H&S, and I totally empathize with this but at the end of the day, would you rather raise your concerns and be made redundant or crippled in a workplace incident?

It is a bit odd how selective they are. In some areas, they are absolutely all over the slightest H&S issue. I wasn't joking earlier when I said there are regular formal risk assessments for using washing up liquid. Even using a different brand will trigger a new risk assessment. The COSHH file is a couple of feet thick.

I know. I work for the NHS and part of my role is to manage the CoSHH assessments. You wan't to see the files for the Histopathology or the Microbiology departments!

I'll stress sgain that my employer is relatively good in the way it treats its bottom-end employees. At least I don't have to haul very unwieldy heavy weights up many flights of stairs, for example.

Fearful of litigation I would guess / perhaps they aren't as naive as you think?

 

[Unicorn]

All it takes is one serious incident to stop a job and put a lot of people in hot water or worse. Iv never heard of a company director/manager etc getting jail time for an injury or death but im sure its happened and so it should if its there failings that took someones life or eyesight or arm etc.

Things are by NAECI book here so i suppose worst comes to worst u know u will get compensation but u don't want to risk it i guess.

 

[3DNow!]

So quick question for anyone who's brushed up on manual handling rules or anyone who's a safety advisor

Im currently working on a construction site which isn't all too bad but i feel the safety of workers and the attitude to safety and my wellbeing isn't really cared about.

First things first im an apprentice (not asking for special treatment) but i shouldn't be made to do anything i am not comfortable with for a start or suitably trained in. The objects in question i am required to carry firstly across the site and then up to the 23m level (a lot of stairs) is 6m lengths of Steel Unistrut and two at a time on my shoulder (approx 35kg and a very awkward load)

Come to tuesday its destroyed my back iv been laid up for two days and i fear its caused some quite bad damage personally im off to the doctors tomorrow if it isn't okay to get some stronger painkillers or see what can be done.

What is my course of action here really on what iv been required to do and what i have done. I just want to make it so i don't have to injure myself to do the task ( Iv asked for a mechanical lifting aid and got told no, I had some help but its rare i ever get it as i get made to do it on my own )

To be honest, 35kg is a lot of weight especially if its 2 loads at the same time. Maximum I would carry and I do on a daily basis is 20kg (wholesaler in foods). To be honest I think because your an apprentice it sounds like one of those "show him the ropes" kinda thing. Nothing wrong in it, except its your body mate, look after it, once it goes it won't come back.

Like I said, I'm a wholesaler in foods, on a daily basis I unload from a pallet 20kg x 65 bags of onions, I know what you are thinking it's just onions, BUT, it's 20KG packed bags. There is no way on earth you are doing yourself any favours by carrying 2 loads that weigh that much, most people cannot even carry 20kg.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

All it takes is one serious incident to stop a job and put a lot of people in hot water or worse. Iv never heard of a company director/manager etc getting jail time for an injury or death but im sure its happened and so it should if its there failings that took someones life or eyesight or arm etc.

Things are by NAECI book here so i suppose worst comes to worst u know u will get compensation but u don't want to risk it i guess.

Breaches of health and safety regulations and other offences
5. The maximum sentence for any other health and safety offence, unless otherwise stated (for example offences under the Employers’ Liability (Compulsory Insurance) Act 1969 – see below), is set out in section 33(3) HSWA. This includes breaches of:

Any health and safety regulations;
Sections 7 to 9 HSWA 1974; and
Existing statutory provisions where no other penalty is specified, e.g. the remaining provisions of the Factories Act 1961, Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act 1963 and Agriculture Acts.
6. These offences are punishable on conviction in the magistrates’ court by a fine up to £5,000, and on conviction in the Crown Court by an unlimited fine7.

7. However, where a person is convicted in the Crown Court of any of the above offences that consists of a breach of licence requirements or certain provisions relating to explosives, the maximum penalty is two years’ imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine8

http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/court/sentencing-penalties.htm

Examples of employers jailed...

• http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2005/e05003.htm
• http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-w-georgecollier.htm
• http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-ldn-16512.htm
• http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-wm-3312.htm