Manual

[acemastr]

I would buy a manual over a CVT as CVTs are horrible but otherwise I agree. No more manual for me since moving to the ZF8HP.

Wrong.

My CVT is fantastic. You're thinking of the old rubber band CVTs.

 

[iaind]

Manual sequential gearboxes don't have manual clutches, required to change gear - are they auto too ? (The clutch would normally be used only for standing starts.)

Do they change gear automatically?

 

[Conscript]

Because I enjoy shifting gears.

A modern proper DSG auto will still provide all the fun and and engagement of an auto if used in manual mode.

Except it won't because it doesn't have a clutch pedal and an H pattern shifter, and that's the bit I enjoy.

EDIT: Oh, and 8am is too late. I'm out at 6am for a Sunday drive usually

 

[Howard]

Pretty much every modern dual clutch based manual gearbox has auto functionality, too. So you logic of 'it must be auto' is flawed too

I was simply stating that you said the DSG is an auto due to the auto option it has, and that similarly it's as nonsensical as saying any car with the ability to change gears yourself "might as well be called a manual" (conventional auto or otherwise).

My logic was flawed because I drew the comparison to yours being equally so.

ARGH.

It has two pedals and a 'D' mode. It changes gear itself, with the option of an electronic override to select gears manually. It's classified as an automatic gearbox. The DVLA would also agree with this.

The technical details of how the power is transferred between the engine and the wheels are not relevant to this classification. The functionality is exactly the same be it a dual-clutch gearbox, or a torque converter one.

In a nutshell:

Saying "DSG gearboxes are not autos" is not a correct statement.

Saying "DSG gearboxes have internals that closely resemble a regular manual gearbox" is more accurate.

 

[mrk]

Why would anyone buy a manual gearbox nowadays? Since switching to automatic (CVT) my life has become a million percent easier. I don't think I'll ever go back to manual.

Because everyone is different.

Some people don't drive to work and back 5 days a week, so don't have to sit in commute traffic. A manual gearbox is more desirable to the eyes of an enthusiast that drives for pleasure - And a manual gearbox is more rewarding in this regard.

I've driven a number of modern autos though, both with and without double/multi clutch and paddles. I just found using the paddles a nicer experience, even though the response lag is annoying.

Manual for me, always.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Wrong.

My CVT is fantastic. You're thinking of the old rubber band CVTs.

Fantastic compared to what? An ancient auto?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Pretty much every modern dual clutch based manual gearbox has auto functionality, too. So you logic of 'it must be auto' is flawed too

Are you on glue?

 

[Janesy B]

Pretty much every modern dual clutch based manual gearbox has auto functionality, too. So you logic of 'it must be auto' is flawed too

It changes gear itself, it's an auto.

CVT is the worst thing ever.

 

[wingman]

Are you on glue?

Have you read what this was in response to, before throwing insults?

It changes gear itself, it's an auto.

It does if you put it in that mode.

It has a manual mode which is connected to clutches, whereby you "manually" change the gear. Just not with your foot.

If you put it in D, it's simply the computer using the clutch for you. Still a manually operated gearbox, facilitated by a computer.

 

[mrk]

Alright calm down we've all had a stick shift.

 

[MrMoonX]

Have you read what this was in response to, before throwing insults?



It does if you put it in that mode.

It has a manual mode which is connected to clutches, whereby you "manually" change the gear. Just not with your foot.

If you put it in D, it's simply the computer using the clutch for you. Still a manually operated gearbox, facilitated by a computer.

It's still an auto

 

[lemonade]

All automatic boxes are manual, therefore all manual boxes are automatic, if the manual box does not have a pedal it becomes automatic, therefore it is no longer a manual gearbox.

 

[flibbage0]

I don't know why we're discussing the intricacies of what makes a manual box, I just want to know why high performance cars don't have them anymore?

 

[Conscript]

If you put it in D, it's simply the computer using the clutch for you. Still a manually operated gearbox, facilitated by a computer.

Surely, when referring to an "automatic" or "manual" tranmission, what we are actually talking about is how the clutch is actuated? That would simplify the whole debate.

Because it's that element which requires the extra "skill", if you like, which is why the DVLA use that distinction when determine whether a car is "manual" or "automatic" transmission.

 

[iaind]

Surely, when referring to an "automatic" or "manual" tranmission, what we are actually talking about is how the clutch is actuated?

Because it's that element which requires the extra "skill", if you like, which is why the DVLA use that distinction when determine whether a car is "manual" or "automatic" transmission.

It depends how you read the guidelines when it comes to the DVLA

6.8 VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
A vehicle with automatic transmission is defined in regulations as `A vehicle in which the gear ratio between the engine and the wheels can be varied only by the use of the accelerator or brakes'. In general a vehicle without a manual clutch is regarded as an automatic.

Clearly, a DSG is an automatic. Anyone who thinks otherwise has had too much glue.

SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics.

So it seems the DVLA consider a clutchless manual/semi auto as an automatic - at least for licensing.

 

[lemonade]

I think people here are conflating technical details with practical usage.

But this is Motors afterall, so people will argue over anything.

 

[Ryan-3]

I don't know why we're discussing the intricacies of what makes a manual box, I just want to know why high performance cars don't have them anymore?

Pulling a paddle to shift gear is far quicker than doing it yourself.

Saab Sensonic. Manual, Auto, both?

 

[Conscript]

I think people here are conflating technical details with practical usage.

But this is Motors afterall, so people will argue over anything.

No we wont.

 

[HummuH1]

ARGH.

It has two pedals and a 'D' mode. It changes gear itself, with the option of an electronic override to select gears manually. It's classified as an automatic gearbox. The DVLA would also agree with this.

Are you sure?

It certainly used to be the case that the DVLA based it's classification on the number of pedals the car has. If it has a clutch is classified as a manual. If it has no clutch pedal, it's classed as an auto. The classification has nothing to do with the gearbox that is actually installed in the car.

A quick search suggest that the DVLA think that:

A vehicle with automatic transmission means a class of vehicle in which either:-

the driver is not provided with any means whereby he may vary the gear ratio between the engine
and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the brakes or:

he is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which he may
operate manually and accordingly, a vehicle with manual transmission is any other class of vehicle.

If the above is right, then the DVLA would think a DSG car is a manual.

However, I've owned 3 SMG E46 M3's, two were classed as autos on the V5 one was classed as a manual so I wouldn;t be using the DVLA's classifcation as what differentiates a manual from an automatic.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Have you read what this was in response to, before throwing insults?

An irrational argument. My point was as relevant and not insulting.