I completely disagree. I won't be buying a car without a clutch pedal until I have no choice.
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- Thread starter Ricochet J
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I completely disagree. I won't be buying a car without a clutch pedal until I have no choice.
So, by this logic, DSG boxes and torque converter autoboxes are firmly in the same category.
Ergo, a DSG box is an automatic gearbox.
It's a silly argument really. I don't know what's so hard to understand about the word "automatic".
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The main reason (for me) to not switch to an auto is...well, I don't think I would actually feel like I am driving a car any more - there is just something to the feeling of greater control that is hard to describe, but impossible to replace 
I read the below;
... as follows;
- It's an auto if the driver doesn't the ability to change the ratios at all.
- He can change ratios, so long as it's not a clutch or lever.
The DSG has a lever? I.e. the paddles?
That's my interpretation anyway.
So do many cars with torque converter gearboxes!!
Operating an electronic switch is a lot different to manually selecting gears in a traditional H-gate pattern whilst using a clutch pedal. A gearbox that automatically changes ratios but gives the user an option to electronically override this, is an automatic gearbox. A gearbox with which the user can change gear electronically (by flicking the shifter lever, for example) but which does not have an automatic 'D' mode, is a semi-automatic. I believe these are classed as automatics as well by the DVLA in terms of license restrictions (i.e. someone who can't drive a 3-pedal manual for medical reasons or whatever) but I may be wrong on this.
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[TW]Fox;28951457 said:
The 'changes' mine makes are almost instant. The fact it doesn't actually change gear at all when driving around normally means that it's smooth and constant surge.
Go drive one before making comments, this time you don't know what you're talking about.
Then this is a flaw within the DVLA classification system, no? It's okay to quote DVLA when it suits your argument, but not when it doesn't?
No, not really. See my edit.
BMWs with the sports auto transmission have an 8-speed torque converter gearbox, with paddles for manually overriding the shifts.
What would you class that as?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I know what a CVT is like and would take a proper auto over one every day of the week with the possible exception of particularly small engines.
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[TW]Fox;28951457 said:
Fantastic compared to standard automatics (excl DSG type systems as they hold their own) sold nowadays.
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[TW]Fox;28951810 said:
What's a proper auto anyway? Slushbox? DCT? CVT? SMG?
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Lets face it, torque converter auto, DSG, CVT.... they're *functionally* identical to drive. Press brake, move lever to D, press acellerator to move. Use paddles or buttons to manually override. It's irellevant how many ratios they are, or what clutch arrangement they use.
i would say that a DSG car is an auto from DVLA's description???????
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A DSG is an auto as far as DVLA (and common sense) are concerned. As is an SMG BMW - the one he had that said manual was an error. A lot of cars are registered incorrectly on the V5.
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I bought my manual car last year because I like changing gears myself, for different situations and the joy of changing gears, and the MPG on the auto is a LOT worse
I've yet to drive a CVT that is 'fantastic compared to standard automatics'. That they remain relatively uncommon is testament to this, they are simply not as good.
It's interesting you specifically highlight DSG as being 'better' - personally, I'd take a good torque converter automatic over a DSG, too.
A CVT box exists because it's reasonably low cost and can maximise available performance on a low performance engine where a conventional auto would have an unacceptable performance penalty. This is why they are most commonly found on small engined cars.
They are not an alternative nor even as intended as such to a proper autobox and a decent engine combination, I've no idea why Subaru use one, probably for packaging reasons.
I'm still waiting for
A 'proper Auto' is one fitted with a torque converter - DCT/SMG style systems are automated manual systems (although fit the DVLA description of an auto) which makes them better than a proper auto at some things and inferior at other things. They are therefore best suited to high performance applications where outright shift speed is the most important attribute of the box.
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