Maximuscle. Noob ?.

[kirkster]

Eating a good balanced diet does NOT make you fat !!! You can take in lots of protein in regular food for the recommended 2500 - 3000 calories needed by most blokes. I am not disagreeing with you that shakes contain protein in a concentrated format.

All I am saying is that you can still put muscle on and grow (without loads of flab) from ordinary food, WITHOUT spending ridiculous sums of money on protein shakes. I can confirm this from first hand experience in over 30 years of training and that of loads of fellow gym rats. A soon as you come off the protein shakes your body musularity will drift back to where you would have been without them. You saying you want to be on protein shakes the rest of your life to retain your muscle? Sooner or later your gonna revert to ordinary food.

Yes I was quite ripped. I was never ab man exactly but I could bench 120Kg for 10 reps and squat 200kg for 12. I used to weigh in at 16 stone with a 33 inch waist. I have changed my sports emphasis nowadays and enjoy cycling more that watching posers in the gym. However, the protien intake in cycling is still important. My quads are huge from cycling hills for 100 Mile rides. I still can bench 100Kg.

I have cut my protein right down to about 120 grams a day and have done this for about five years. Anymore for mesamorphic types like me goes into fat unless your on the 'roids.

Steve

 

[Chong Warrior]

Well first off that's some impressive lifting there mate and I have to admit I'm very suprised. Your post gave off the impression of a very different kind of lifter.

I say that because when someone mentions baked beans, weetabix, bread, turkey slices, etc as a healthy well balanced diet I laugh. That's not what I'd call real, nutritious food at all...

You aren't currently bodybuilding so your protein needs aren't that high. The goal of bodybuilding is almost purely hypertrophy and growth with the lowest bodyfat possible. This is helped by large intake of protein, it helps you keep leaner and keep muscle mass... that's why we do it. It is absolutely essential? Maybe not upto a certain level such as casual weekend warriors but when looking to take it a bit further and wanting optimal gains then I'd say yes it is.

All I am saying is that you can still put muscle on and grow (without loads of flab) from ordinary food, WITHOUT spending ridiculous sums of money on protein shakes. I can confirm this from first hand experience in over 30 years of training and that of loads of fellow gym rats. A soon as you come off the protein shakes your body musularity will drift back to where you would have been without them. You saying you want to be on protein shakes the rest of your life to retain your muscle? Sooner or later your gonna revert to ordinary food.

You don't need to spend ridiculous sums of money if you're smart and buy in bulk

Aren't you contradicting yourself there though? You say the high protein isn't needed/ just makes you fat but if you stop taking protein shakes then your muscles will shrink?

 

[kirkster]

No contradiction mate...

I trained for years and did take some protein shakes in moderation.

Mortgage, 3 kids, computers = no protein shakes since not enough ££££

Slight loss of muscle mass back to roughly waht I would have achieved without shakes in that I can no longer bench 120Kg - I can do 100kg still for 10 reps.

I am not saying to anyone do not use shakes !! I am saying that they are expensive and all this talk about not making progress without them is nonsense. Weetabix, milk, beans, tuna, bread, chicken, peas, lentils, all this stuff is great protein or can be combined to make great protein. It does mean planning your meals though.

Also, this is real food !!! You get antioxidants, minerals, vitamins etc, much more than just downing whey and skimmed milk.

Maybe I will concede that protein shake sare good for your post workout meal, where you have got to get some protein on board asap. However, I take some ham and chees with wholemeal bread. I have maintained most opf my muscle and I am bigger than nearly anyone in my gym, despite the fact that I am probably much fitter tna them because f the cycling.

Again, my 2c. Not disrespecting anyone elses opinions.

Steve

 

[MTA99]

A soon as you come off the protein shakes your body musularity will drift back to where you would have been without them. You saying you want to be on protein shakes the rest of your life to retain your muscle? Sooner or later your gonna revert to ordinary food.

Not trying to be a smart ass but you do realise whey protein is essentially the same as beef protein or egg protein or chicken protein. Your post suggests that (whey) protein shakes magically make you bigger. Of course if you stop drinking shakes and cut 40-50gms of protein a day out your diet you'll lose muscle in exactly the same way as if you cut a chicken breast or two from your diet you'd lose mass. Do you really wanna have to eat 6 meals a day for the rest of your life?!?

If I told you it was possible to buy 5kgs of high quality whey for ~£33 (was £23 not too long ago) would you still think shakes were expensive? If i use 80gms of whey a day then that will last for 2 months. I spend more in a week on *real* protein than I spend on whey in a month.

I know that sounds a bit patronising but there's too many myths and half truths on t'internet. The only reason i replied to your post was to offer an alternative view for any beginners that might be lurking

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

Things not being taken into account in the above posts.

Whey supplementation for people needing > 200g protein per day is far cheaper than most wholefoods and far lower in fats and carbs (which you can get plenty of in your proper meals)

Whey in particular is the single fastest absorbing protein form, perfect, nay, mandatory, for the proper control of anabolics post-workout.

Whey protein blends contain more essential and non-essential amino acids than any wholefood. If structured correctly with BCAA's and othe amino specific supplements they can provide ALL the AA's needed for growth and muscle support.

Normal people cant eat enough wholefood meals in a day to ge decent amounts of protein. Either their appetites or lifestyles cannot handle it. For example personally i can carry shakes around while im out working, but theres no way i could be eating chicken breasts and other balanced protein rich meals.

All of those facts are not intended to detract from the anti-whey lobby, merely to illustrate that the advancement in protein supplementation and information over the past decade or so has widely improved the normal persons ability to bodybuild. I might spend my fiver a day on whey and a few other bits sure, but not only is that cheaper than 2 chicken breasts, it contains many times more protein, much less fat and a perfect balance of EAA's and NEAA's. Thatll do nicely gu'vnor!

 

[Chong Warrior]

No contradiction mate...

I trained for years and did take some protein shakes in moderation.

Mortgage, 3 kids, computers = no protein shakes since not enough ££££

Sounds like you've been buying over-priced, over-hyped mush like Maximuscle? There's simply no cheaper source of protein than whey bought in bulk. I get 10kg inc P&P for £62, that last's a long time, unbeatable value for money

I am not saying to anyone do not use shakes !! I am saying that they are expensive and all this talk about not making progress without them is nonsense. Weetabix, milk, beans, tuna, bread, chicken, peas, lentils, all this stuff is great protein or can be combined to make great protein. It does mean planning your meals though.

Also, this is real food !!! You get antioxidants, minerals, vitamins etc, much more than just downing whey and skimmed milk.

Real food? Weetabix really isn't that good for you, organic oats are better in every way. Milk? Homogenized and not as healthy as people think for all kinds of other reasons... and you'd NEVER catch me drinking skimmed! Baked beans? Full of sugar and salt, not good. Bread? Don't get me started on that rubbish, especially the white stuff! Tuna? Be careful how much you eat of this, they're near the top of the food chain and therefor much higher in toxic metals. Almost zero fat so no Omega-3 either, poor choice of fish.

Don't get me wrong these aren't devil foods and to be avoided completely, they aren't McDonalds but to list them in the context you have? Organic oats, green beans, broccoli, spinach, mackerel, sweet potato, Free Range or Organic (or NZ) - Eggs, Liver, Heart, Steak are just a few examples of far more nutritious alternatives

However, I take some ham and chees with wholemeal bread. I have maintained most opf my muscle and I am bigger than nearly anyone in my gym, despite the fact that I am probably much fitter tna them because f the cycling.

Ham and cheese are ok together, add the bread and we have problems. Mixing saturated fats with carbs like bread is just asking for fat storage. Again not the end of the world but hardly top, healthy dieting? You wouldn't catch me eating it.

Seems like I'm having a go at you mate but I hear people say things like I don't need supplements, I eat real food, etc all the time. (There's one guy on here who's just blanket anti-supp's!) I ask for their diet that they think is so nutritious and it's nearly always quite poor, mine blows them away.... AND I supplement with the best most effective supp's at the best prices. This is what I'm aiming for and learning about every day, optimal nutrition so I can train even harder. Not looking to put you down... if people have the same goals they can learn from each other

You don't need the supp's no but I honestly think you can improve that diet of yours.

 

[kirkster]

I used to buy my stuff from the Ministry of Fitness who are very reputable.

www.tmof.co.uk

However, they seem to have gone offline.

It was about £100 for 10kg. Enough to last for a while. Iused to buy it for post work out meals and to drink before going to bed.

Again. I maintain thay you do not NEED to use it. You can eat six meals and be fine.

Steve

 

[Jeffstar]

I used to buy my stuff from the Ministry of Fitness who are very reputable.

www.tmof.co.uk

However, they seem to have gone offline.

It was about £100 for 10kg. Enough to last for a while. Iused to buy it for post work out meals and to drink before going to bed.

Again. I maintain thay you do not NEED to use it. You can eat six meals and be fine.

Steve

I get my Whey protein from http://www.sports-nutrition.net/store.php who are the cheapest (they will undercut anyone by 50p). They've also offered me 25% off my next orders up untill 21st September

I completely agree though, you do not need to use protein shakes to build up if you're getting plenty of protein in your diet. Also, some people really ought to read up on how the body treats too much protein. *hint* deamination

 

[Volcs]

I get my Whey protein from http://www.sports-nutrition.net/store.php who are the cheapest (they will undercut anyone by 50p). They've also offered me 25% off my next orders up untill 21st September

I completely agree though, you do not need to use protein shakes to build up if you're getting plenty of protein in your diet. Also, some people really ought to read up on how the body treats too much protein. *hint* deamination

"Jeffstar in Supplement Use Shocker"

 

[MTA99]

Also, some people really ought to read up on how the body treats too much protein. *hint* deamination

Go on Jeff explain the significance of deamination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deamination

As far as i can see (from that and other links) its the bio-chemical process through which proteins are broken down into their component amino acids.

 

[benjo plz.]

not suprised tmof have gone offline if they're trying to sell 10kgs whey for £100 :\

They've also offered me 25% off my next orders up untill 21st September

orders? gah they only gave me 25% off my next order.

 

[Jeffstar]

Go on Jeff explain the significance of deamination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deamination

As far as i can see (from that and other links) its the bio-chemical process through which proteins are broken down into their component amino acids.

Deamination:

Your body cannot store excess protein, so what happens to it? The liver removes the Nitrogen part of Amino acids turning them into Carbohydrates which is then turned into glucose, if the body doesn't need that glucose for energy, it can and does convert it to body fat.

The simple fact is, a large percentage of the protein you eat is turned into Glucose

 

[Jeffstar]

"Jeffstar in Supplement Use Shocker"

Haha, Indeed

Nah, i've never denied using Whey Protein mate. Lets face it, they're damn convenient at times. I still prefer to get my protein fix from solid food

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

Deamination:

Your body cannot store excess protein, so what happens to it? The liver removes the Nitrogen part of Amino acids turning them into Carbohydrates which is then turned into glucose, if the body doesn't need that glucose for energy, it can and does convert it to body fat.

The simple fact is, a large percentage of the protein you eat is turned into Glucose

Maybe a large percentage of the protein is converted to glucose but only around 12% of it by weight relative to standard carbs. Meaning youd need to drink like 20 protein shakes to = 1 slice of white bread

 

[Jeffstar]

Maybe a large percentage of the protein is converted to glucose but only around 12% of it by weight relative to standard carbs. Meaning youd need to drink like 20 protein shakes to = 1 slice of white bread

^^^More misinformation

Where the heck do you get the figure of 12% from??

 

[MTA99]

Your body cannot store excess protein, so what happens to it? The liver removes the Nitrogen part of Amino acids turning them into Carbohydrates which is then turned into glucose, if the body doesn't need that glucose for energy, it can and does convert it to body fat.

The simple fact is, a large percentage of the protein you eat is turned into Glucose

Your body cannot store starch and other complex carbs so it breaks it down in to glucose and stores in the liver and muscles. Same goes for excess fat, stored in fat cells

See my earlier post about excess calories.

 

[Jeffstar]

Your body cannot store starch and other complex carbs so it breaks it down in to glucose and stores in the liver and muscles. Same goes for excess fat, stored in fat cells

See my earlier post about excess calories.

We all know what excess calories do, but seeing as this thread is about protein and you asked me to explain Deamination...

Do you accept that excess protein is converted to glucose (or fat) now though?

 

[benjo plz.]

Do you accept that excess protein is converted to glucose (or fat) now though?

I don't think MTA was saying it isn't. You didn't mention gluconeogenesis...
And I think it's something like 1g of protein = 4 kcals?

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

I don't think MTA was saying it isn't. You didn't mention gluconeogenesis...
And I think it's something like 1g of protein = 4 kcals?

yeah. oh and jeffstar, i made up 12% it was a beuss, but it illustrates a point. Protein as an energy source is crap

 

[Jeffstar]

I don't think MTA was saying it isn't. You didn't mention gluconeogenesis...
And I think it's something like 1g of protein = 4 kcals?

I didn't mention a lot of things eg: that the Nitrogen part of the amino acid is urinated out of the body after deamination, i just gave a brief description. It's better that people do their own research

oh and jeffstar, i made up 12% it was a beuss, but it illustrates a point. Protein as an energy source is crap

Well, don't make things up then! It doesn't illustrate anything other than your lack of understanding in regards deamination, and its misinformation