May rejects points-based system for EU nationals

[Woden]

The Brits currently paid to sit at home?

But they are not doing them now so how will that change? I despair for the country if we are going to be left with staff that couldn't beat someone that can't even grasp basic English to a job.

Or are they just too good for minimum wage,? Do we pay them more, increasing costs! That will just be passed on to the customer, and we're back to square one.

 

[scorza]

Why should they be paid more? It's not like you need any skill to do that job. And even if they are then companies will raise they prices to cover the extra expenses and we'll end up where we are as cost of living will be higher.

They should be paid market wages, and that market shouldn't be undermined by mass migration (which increases profits, but lowers wages and working conditions).

Forgetting my stance on Brexit for the minute, is it likely we're going to see a sudden salary uplift at the lower end of the wage spectrum? Surely even if that is the case that means that companies will need to pass those additional costs onto customers, which means higher inflation, which means in real money terms people aren't going to be better off?

Realistically, I doubt it - the damage to the lower end of the labour market has already been done and it will take years if not decades to recover. The link between wages and prices isn't as direct as you think, with most companies these days setting their prices based on the market not on their costs-plus profit. A bit of inflation is a healthy thing for an economy, the UK's inflation figures are below target right now which is not a good thing. Paying office cleaners 10% more isn't going to result in hyper-inflation.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

in real money terms people aren't going to be better off?

You've seen this trick before, haven't you?

The problem with low income is not the amount but the cost of living.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

But they are not doing them now so how will that change? I despair for the country if we are going to be left with staff that couldn't beat someone that can't even grasp basic English to a job.

Or are they just too good for minimum wage,? Do we pay them more, increasing costs! That will just be passed on to the customer, and we're back to square one.

Its worse than being back to square one, we live in a gloablised world, make UK wages too high and everything apart from service and very skilled jobs will go elsewhere.
I am not sure what we will be exporting then to the rest of the world, salty tears about how we are true brits and we should earn more than the rest of them now we have thrown off the shackles of the Eu maybe

 

[platypus]

The Brits currently paid to sit at home?

Good one .

 

[Rids]

Realistically, I doubt it - the damage to the lower end of the labour market has already been done and it will take years if not decades to recover. The link between wages and prices isn't as direct as you think, with most companies these days setting their prices based on the market not on their costs-plus profit. A bit of inflation is a healthy thing for an economy, the UK's inflation figures are below target right now which is not a good thing. Paying office cleaners 10% more isn't going to result in hyper-inflation.

I have nothing but a basic grasp of economics so my thinking could easily be way off, but if you're giving Joe the Barista in your local Costa a pay rise of 10%, that's probably not going to put him far off his direct supervisors hourly rate, so keep the supervisor happy you're going to give them a bump too. Then the store manager is going to want a bump, and before you know it pay his risen a fair way up the chain. That increased money in peoples pockets mean that the market might be able to bear (bare?) higher prices, which means prices go up and the people at the lower end of the wage spectrum are still not much better off in real terms.

Having said that, anything we can do to encourage people back to work, and not turning down work because it would make them worse off, is a step in the right direction.

 

[StriderX]

I have nothing but a basic grasp of economics so my thinking could easily be way off, but if you're giving Joe the Barista in your local Costa a pay rise of 10%, that's probably not going to put him far off his direct supervisors hourly rate, so keep the supervisor happy you're going to give them a bump too. Then the store manager is going to want a bump, and before you know it pay his risen a fair way up the chain. That increased money in peoples pockets mean that the market might be able to bear (bare?) higher prices, which means prices go up and the people at the lower end of the wage spectrum are still not much better off in real terms.

Having said that, anything we can do to encourage people back to work, and not turning down work because it would make them worse off, is a step in the right direction.

Why bother though?

You cannot ever get someone excited to work in services if they don't like other people, and that is about the only jobs truly going right now (Native workman are just the worst people, we dont want that).

Productivity is low because that is simply the state of the British mind right now.

 

[scorza]

I have nothing but a basic grasp of economics so my thinking could easily be way off, but if you're giving Joe the Barista in your local Costa a pay rise of 10%, that's probably not going to put him far off his direct supervisors hourly rate, so keep the supervisor happy you're going to give them a bump too. Then the store manager is going to want a bump, and before you know it pay his risen a fair way up the chain. That increased money in peoples pockets mean that the market might be able to bear (bare?) higher prices, which means prices go up and the people at the lower end of the wage spectrum are still not much better off in real terms.

Having said that, anything we can do to encourage people back to work, and not turning down work because it would make them worse off, is a step in the right direction.

The problem for your local Costa in that situation is that if they increase the price of their coffee, then they will sell less cups of it. The price of something is determined by the market, not by a company's costs. For sure, wage inflation puts pressure on prices, but doesn't necessarily lead to price increases for every company. If Costa thought they could sell as many cups of coffee as they do right now if it was £4 instead of £2 then they would already be charging £4 a cup (they might be already for all I know).

 

[Domo]

Doesn't surprise me at all, nor am I surprised there are voters who still believe someone's going to pull something magical from the bag - something supposedly in the making but clearly government want to savour that Ta Da! moment and give us all a big thrill while taking the punches now. Those cheeky little devils.

Between watching a disheveled looking David Davies spouting nothing but air and fluff in parliament yesterday, coupled with May waddling around the G20 while trying to mask the fact there's simply no plan for exiting the EU (while also spouting waffle which lacks any real substance but the usual soundbites) it's quite apparent government are up a creak without a paddle. Or a plan. And all in front of our G20 peers.

 

[Rids]

The problem for your local Costa in that situation is that if they increase the price of their coffee, then they will sell less cups of it. The price of something is determined by the market, not by a company's costs. For sure, wage inflation puts pressure on prices, but doesn't necessarily lead to price increases for every company. If Costa thought they could sell as many cups of coffee as they do right now if it was £4 instead of £2 then they would already be charging £4 a cup (they might be already for all I know).

I think the point I'm trying (and failing badly) to make is that if general wage inflation occurs, the market will most likely be in a position to absorb the price rises as in general there will be more money available to spend. Obviously I'm over simplifying things here using coffee as an example, but rent could be a big one, landlords already charge as much as they can get away with, and there is still a shortage of places to live around big urban centres. In a market such a housing where such a shortage exists, you could easily see prices rising and offsetting any rise in salary.

Anyway, that was the point I was trying to make, I'll stop yammering on now as I'm not well read enough in the subject to debate much further than that.

 

[scorza]

I think the point I'm trying (and failing badly) to make is that if general wage inflation occurs, the market will most likely be in a position to absorb the price rises as in general there will be more money available to spend. Obviously I'm over simplifying things here using coffee as an example, but rent could be a big one, landlords already charge as much as they can get away with, and there is still a shortage of places to live around big urban centres. In a market such a housing where such a shortage exists, you could easily see prices rising and offsetting any rise in salary.

Anyway, that was the point I was trying to make, I'll stop yammering on now as I'm not well read enough in the subject to debate much further than that.

That's OK dude, I think we're basically on the same side here. Wrt housing - hopefully we can slow down population growth which should slow down house price growth.

Oh, and let's be honest - if people only posted on this forum when they knew what they were talking about, it'd be a very quiet forum indeed

 

[Amp34]

Such a system will be impossible to administer. How can the government possibly know what indervidual companies recruitment needs are?

Industry and government will be crippled under the weight of time consuming bureaucracy. The levels of irony are bordering on hilarity considering the whining form Leave over EU "red-tape".

It's how a fair number of countries work. Examples being Canada and Australia to name two.

They have a list of skills they want. If your job is on that list, and you get enough points (based on experience, language skills, age and qualifications, amongst others) you can then apply for a visa based on that job title. Once the required number of that skill set are approved then no more applications for that skill are allowed until the numbers are reset (usually yearly).

It's not particularly flexible, and not great for small sectors, but works reasonably well for highly skilled individuals with specific skills, such as doctors, engineers, geoscientists etc. There is also usually a second stream designed for non "skilled" jobs (such as mechanics and bricklayers etc). How immigration come up with the numbers required in the first place I have no idea. Perhaps questionnaires to big companies asking what skills shortages there are?

 

[Amp34]

Forgetting my stance on Brexit for the minute, is it likely we're going to see a sudden salary uplift at the lower end of the wage spectrum? Surely even if that is the case that means that companies will need to pass those additional costs onto customers, which means higher inflation, which means in real money terms people aren't going to be better off?

On the "positive" side, although it would make bugger all difference to the poorest, it would decrease our income inequality between rich and poor a small amount.

 

[Amp34]

They should be paid market wages, and that market shouldn't be undermined by mass migration (which increases profits, but lowers wages and working conditions).



Realistically, I doubt it - the damage to the lower end of the labour market has already been done and it will take years if not decades to recover. The link between wages and prices isn't as direct as you think, with most companies these days setting their prices based on the market not on their costs-plus profit. A bit of inflation is a healthy thing for an economy, the UK's inflation figures are below target right now which is not a good thing. Paying office cleaners 10% more isn't going to result in hyper-inflation.

Out of interest does your anti immigration stance also extent to well paid disciplines like doctors, engineers and oil workers? That would be great! Double all their salaries. 6 figures for all!

 

[scorza]

Out of interest does your anti immigration stance also extent to well paid disciplines like doctors, engineers and oil workers? That would be great! Double all their salaries. 6 figures for all!

I don't have an anti-immigration stance, I have an anti-mass migration stance, which applies to all professions in the UK. Junior doctors in particular are massively underpaid in the UK

 

[Tefal]

Forgetting my stance on Brexit for the minute, is it likely we're going to see a sudden salary uplift at the lower end of the wage spectrum? Surely even if that is the case that means that companies will need to pass those additional costs onto customers, which means higher inflation, which means in real money terms people aren't going to be better off?

Wasnt that actually brought up by the reamain side during the debate before the referendum.

That there would be an increase in wages for the vwry low paid but that this would doom us all

 

[Azza]

Must not let the Wildlings climb the wall!!!

 

[Cern]

Other ports are available. Or are they planning to wall off every port and harbour in France?

 

[StriderX]

Other ports are available. Or are they planning to wall off every port and harbour in France?

The French will sooner burn the camp (already started from what i recall) to the ground than we could ever act on anything.

 

[Narj]

Off topic post... ignore.