MCSE advice

If you are starting now I would aim for a MCTS first and then towards MSITP, by the time you have the experience to back up the qualifications 2008 will be much more standard.
 
You can upgrade from 2003 to 2008.

The 2003 stays forever on your transcript where as the 2008 exams are on a 3 year update (current lifecycle). So my advice would be to do 2003 and upgrade though from the sounds of it you may be better of doing something like a MCDST (Microsoft Desktop Supprt Technician - 2 exams) and trying to go from there. It also counts as one exam towards the MCSA.




M.
 
Had an MCSE booked up through work last year, I cancelled it as thought there was no point.

The training money would be better spent on other qualifications to help further my career rather than a qualification that just validates what I currently did.

In my eyes I couldn't see the point, my next role would benefit from other certifications so am off to do those.

I have 1 lonely IT cert, and even that is something anyone with half a brain cell can get (ITIL stuff). Am also being sent on a Security+ course as we had some training credits to use up and it was the only decent course on the list lol.

I think people generally get very hung up on getting an MCSE or CCNA. I'd say take a look at what you want to do and train up in those areas. Obviously if you want to do MS server support then an MCSE is pretty appropriate, as is a CCNA if you want to do Cisco support, and either would probably be a reasonable foundation to move onto other things. However they are not the be all and end all!

I also thinks it helps in IT to get into certain areas rather than the run of the mill basic server maint.
 
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The problem is, no employer in their right mind would employ someone with little or no experience and a higher level qualification.

My advice to anyone wanting to get into the industry is to volunteer to get some experience - thats what I did. Its free (rather than thousands of pounds) and looks a lot better to a prospective employer
 
iaind said:
The problem is, no employer in their right mind would employ someone with little or no experience and a higher level qualification.

My advice to anyone wanting to get into the industry is to volunteer to get some experience - thats what I did. Its free (rather than thousands of pounds) and looks a lot better to a prospective employer
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Or do what most do, start at the bottom in a trainee type role and work your way up! Too many people think because they know a thing or 2 about computers they can jump in to the higher paid jobs right away.
 
Same thing really - but proving you've got what it takes without experience can be tricky. A few months volunteering is very appealing - shows you're doing it because you enjoy it.

Being able to put a PC together does not make an IT professional, but sadly so many people seem to think it does.

The amount of people I've known who seem to think they can offer consultancy to businesses because they can assemble a PC is scary
 
iaind said:
The problem is, no employer in their right mind would employ someone with little or no experience and a higher level qualification.
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someone with an MCSE and no experience should get the warning lights flashing that they brain dumped the exams as it shouldn't be possible to pass a full MCSE with no experience.

i knew someone who had no experience and went on one of these courses and was there for 2-3 months and only managed to pass 2 MCPs. What made it worse was when he told me how they run the courses and he didn't realise what brain dumping was and he was actually doing it :confused:

MW
 
iaind said:
Same thing really - but proving you've got what it takes without experience can be tricky. A few months volunteering is very appealing - shows you're doing it because you enjoy it.

Being able to put a PC together does not make an IT professional, but sadly so many people seem to think it does.

The amount of people I've known who seem to think they can offer consultancy to businesses because they can assemble a PC is scary
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i did volunter planning work while doing my masters, and walked into a job starting at 22k, and within 20 months I was on 33k. I got the job above other candiates as I stood out due to the volunteer work I had undertaken on my course. without it I would have just been another candiates. Volunteer work is priceless!

Borich
 
i think over all to ace an interview you need qualifications, experience, show real passion for the job and a good personality. also finding the right company, some companies i've interviewed with were stingy and were gonna argue the case not pay the full advertised wage of £21k where as one company outright offered me £35k, £5k company car, health insurance, life insurance, dental care and pension and these were literally a few months a part. the strange thing was i got offered the better job until the stupid americans screwed my contract :(

MW
 
Ev0 said:
Had an MCSE booked up through work last year, I cancelled it as thought there was no point.

The training money would be better spent on other qualifications to help further my career rather than a qualification that just validates what I currently did.

In my eyes I couldn't see the point, my next role would benefit from other certifications so am off to do those.

I have 1 lonely IT cert, and even that is something anyone with half a brain cell can get (ITIL stuff). Am also being sent on a Security+ course as we had some training credits to use up and it was the only decent course on the list lol.

I think people generally get very hung up on getting an MCSE or CCNA. I'd say take a look at what you want to do and train up in those areas. Obviously if you want to do MS server support then an MCSE is pretty appropriate, as is a CCNA if you want to do Cisco support, and either would probably be a reasonable foundation to move onto other things. However they are not the be all and end all!

I also thinks it helps in IT to get into certain areas rather than the run of the mill basic server maint.
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Not getting a qualification because you do the job is absolutely bizzarre. The validation is what the employer wants.

Basically the experience and the MCSA/E/etc. ensure that the person being employed can do the job. If you have no experience and an MCSE then sure the alarm bells ring and in most cases the person doesn't get the job. If you have 5 years experience and no qualifications it comes across as being lazy. If you have 5 years and qualifications that's much better and is really what the exams are designed for (basically people with practical experience).

It's also a very good way of going to your employer and saying 'look I've done all of this work to get the qualifications and I've proven I can do the work so how about some extra cash' (obviously when things pick up for most of us!)


M.
 
Mr-White said:
If you check the job sites they'll give you the average wages for the qualifications. In london:

MCSA: £15-25k
MCSE: £25-40k
CCNA: £20-25k
CCNP: £30-50k
CCIE: £50-£90k
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That is quite poor given that the average wage in London is circa 30k - Id have thought that an "IT professional" ought to be above average.

It does seem that supply & demand is very much in play here - specialising in a niche area certainly pays more (though at the risk of your skills becoming redundant more easily) - seems like cisco & MS quals in themselves are very common thus perhpas not as well rewarded (CCIE aside). Though on the flip side MS and cisco aren't about to disappear anytime soon and there will certainly always be opportunities for people with decent experience in either area.
 
m4cc45 said:
Not getting a qualification because you do the job is absolutely bizzarre. The validation is what the employer wants.

Basically the experience and the MCSA/E/etc. ensure that the person being employed can do the job. If you have no experience and an MCSE then sure the alarm bells ring and in most cases the person doesn't get the job. If you have 5 years experience and no qualifications it comes across as being lazy. If you have 5 years and qualifications that's much better and is really what the exams are designed for (basically people with practical experience).

It's also a very good way of going to your employer and saying 'look I've done all of this work to get the qualifications and I've proven I can do the work so how about some extra cash' (obviously when things pick up for most of us!)


M.
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In most cases I'd agree, however with me and my job/career getting the MCSE would make absolutely no difference to my pay whatsover. And they've had all the validation of my skills they need with what I've done/am doing there :)

Plus whilst my job is on a server team what I actually do is a bit removed from the rest of the guys so an MCSE is not actually that relevant.

And it won't be a case of 5 years experience and no qualifications, I'm doing others that are going to be of more benefit than an MCSE, which for what I want to do in future is simply not that important. Got a couple of MS exams booked up that I wanted to take, and have got some ISEB and ITIL exams on the cards.
 
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There's so many people in IT but then there's a lot of jobs too and because of that there's always going to be jobs but then there's always going to be a fair bit of competition.

The certs have been devalued over the last fews years due to people brain dumping them but microsoft are planning on changing the questions so that they are more like the simulation questions and harder to cheat on

MW
 
dowie said:
That is quite poor given that the average wage in London is circa 30k - Id have thought that an "IT professional" ought to be above average.

It does seem that supply & demand is very much in play here - specialising in a niche area certainly pays more (though at the risk of your skills becoming redundant more easily) - seems like cisco & MS quals in themselves are very common thus perhpas not as well rewarded (CCIE aside). Though on the flip side MS and cisco aren't about to disappear anytime soon and there will certainly always be opportunities for people with decent experience in either area.
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Get a VCP ;)

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/vmware certified professional (vcp).do
 
The course is brilliant, well worth doing. Be warned, the course isnt cheap! (4 days, about 2k)

Unlike the MCSE where you can braindump it without any experience, attending the course is a requirement for the cert.

I dont quite earn that much, but it made me stand head and shoulders above the other candidates for my current job
 
dowie said:
That is quite poor given that the average wage in London is circa 30k - Id have thought that an "IT professional" ought to be above average.

It does seem that supply & demand is very much in play here - specialising in a niche area certainly pays more (though at the risk of your skills becoming redundant more easily) - seems like cisco & MS quals in themselves are very common thus perhpas not as well rewarded (CCIE aside). Though on the flip side MS and cisco aren't about to disappear anytime soon and there will certainly always be opportunities for people with decent experience in either area.
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30k in london is not that great, once you take out travelling time etc, Had a friend who left the Council been in same job since he left uni (4 years) and got a job with a top planning company in london as a economic development officer and is now on high 40's. Seems you have to put a lot more work with all these courses to be a high earner in IT?

Borich
 
borich_planner said:
Seems you have to put a lot more work with all these courses to be a high earner in IT?
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yup and once you have them they need updating, everytime a new version comes out with Microsoft or renewing every 2 years with the CCNA and CCNP. But if you find the right company they'll pay and provide you the time. My company pays £1000 a year and will allow 2 half days a month to study :)

MW
 
Mr-White said:
yup and once you have them they need updating, everytime a new version comes out with Microsoft or renewing every 2 years with the CCNA and CCNP. But if you find the right company they'll pay and provide you the time. My company pays £1000 a year and will allow 2 half days a month to study :)

MW
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but I'm more interested in where you work isn't it full of loads of 16-18 year olds girls? :)

Borich
 
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