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lunarwolf said:
they always need to produce new products since they open new markets and important for long term survival. tFYI the polio vaccine that saved countless lives was given for free and not patented. man and science have evolved for many years without patents. you are the one that is shortsighted.
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Lol, that works on a small scale. Now please tell me why companies would spend 800,000. There wouldn't be long term anything in your utopia. They would make one drug and go bust. It's as simple as that.
You really need to think and apply a bit of logic, or live in a communist type country where everything is done for the good of the people. But never works as people aren't all the same and are greedy by default.

So if you where rich, you would willing spend 800million on research and would. Have to sell a drug for £5 each and have no protection. So several competitors copy it and sell it for £0.10 each.
Where does your 800million come from to fund the next research, youve made 10 sales to competitors so they can copy it.

This also isn't the past, where it wasn't possible to discover how things where made or made up.

Electron microscopes and other tech are new.
 
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Amp34 said:
I'd disagree entirely. A lot of artists make their living from the art, from sales of their art, just like film companies. If you take a photo rather than buy the official print (or the actual artwork itself) then you are doing just the same as some one downloading a film or camming in a cinema. They lose out on a sale, and profit.
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And once those artists have enough money to live on, do they still produce art to make money or do they produce art simply because they are expressing themselves via their artform?

I'm not saying at all that artists shouldn' profit from their work simply that true artists do not produce work simply to make as much money as possible.

If I painted something that i really loved and felt i really nailed what i was trying to express then why should i care that i haven't made money from it. Does it make the painting any less somehow? I don't think it does.

My views of course may not be the view of most artists but this is obviously just my opinion.
 
Amp34 said:
Unfortunately it would be a race to the bottom... Companies wouldn't be spending hundreds of millions researching because those companies would had gone broke fairly quickly, leaving just the generics, manufacturing the same drugs we already have.
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without all these patents they would still do research to make new products and open new markets, plenty of other businesses do that without the abuse of patents in the pharmaceutical sector. they charge whatever they want, make huge markups, because governments pay the bills. the system is corrupt and innefficient, and markups are widespread which make the costs so much higher than they should be in the first place.

ever heard of the urban legend of the ever lasting lightbulb that was patented and never produced since it would mean selling less lightbulbs? also you believe that only Glaxo etc... are capable of research, but you forget universities can do research as well as governement funded programs etc... were the eurotunnel, space missions, concorde etc... funded by private companies?

btw this is nothing about utopia or a dream, the world has survived thousands of years without patents, but somehow we still manged to invent the wheel, etc... you have just been so brainwashed that you see no alternative except accusing others of being utopians or communists. lol
 
lunarwolf said:
, plenty of other businesses do that without the abuse of patents in the pharmaceutical sector.
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Name one.

Then go have a look at public funded medicine and private funded medicine.

Goverment and public can't afford the research costs for masses of drugs. They do several and even then get a cut of the profits due to patents.

You really are living in a dream world

You realise you said urban legend right. There's lots of these urban legends and are rubbish.
There's an urban legend about extremely powerful batteries, so now we need powerful batteries for Electric Vehicles why hasn't the companies cashed in and become the richest coporation in the world.

The world is no longer the same as when we invented the wheel. Research costs aren't the same, technology isn't the same, the way society functions is not the same. Yes you are in a dream land.
 
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Glaucus said:
Or blinded.
.
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I'm not blinded I just happen to put the freedoms of people over the greed of corporations. I'm not condoning copyright infringement.

Whilst unrelated to this thread it is the reason I support the Occupy movement.

And it is the reason I'd rather live in a world where copyright infringement was fairly common and have a free and open internet than one where the Internet is restricted and creativity is curtailed.

I say all this as an independent content creator. Content that I even make money off. I'd rather have that "pirated" and keep the Internet free even if it loses me money.
 
lunarwolf said:
lol. who pays the bill for the drugs in the end. it is the government - the NHS.
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One country and even they don't pay for all drugs. They are very selective. Lots of drugs are not avilable on NHS and the NhS is not the world. Which is where they are sold. So try again.

And still doesn't hold water for your argument so goverment spend all the money on research can't protect it and someone else comes and undercuts it by many times. Meaning governments pay several times.
Not that are goverment could afford to carry out all the research in the world.
 
Glaucus said:
One country and even they don't pay for all drugs. They are very selective. Lots of drugs are not avilable on NHS and the NhS is not the world. Which is where they are sold. So try again.
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lol yes sold to other western countries, ie their NHS equivalent. thirld world countries for the most part do not pay for thsese since they get generics. unless it's aids in africa etc... and then paid for by western charities

seriously remove the blinders, and think outside the box

blinkers.jpg
 
lunarwolf said:
lol yes sold to other western countries, ie their NHS equivalent. thirld world countries for the most part do not pay for thsese since they get generics. unless it's aids in africa etc... and then paid for by western charities
]
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A lot of countries have no or extremely limited national Healy services. You also ignored that that the nhs already can't afford all drugs and has a limited list. Ontop of that we can't afford the nhs as it is. Look at outer national debt.
So that doesn't wash.
Also how do we afford the research happening in hundreds of countries.

Come on put some thought into it.
 
Glaucus said:
A lot of countries have no or extremely limited national Healy services. You also ignored that that the nhs already can't afford all drugs and has a limited list. Ontop of that we can't afford the nhs as it is. Look at outer national debt.
So that doesn't wash.
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all western european countries and the US, Canada, Japan have NHS equivalents, in fact many have better coverage than the NHS. as i said thirld world countries produce generics or get covered through western funded charities for the most part. who cares if the NHS don't cover Viagra, they paid for Tamilflu which was a hoax and cost a tidy sum.

as far as the NHS being the cause of the debt is a joke. how about the bank bailouts, the fact that the UK government owns Lloyds, RBS etc... you think that had no cost??
 
US isn't a good example at all, it's extremely limited.
Even france isn't like the NHs and you pay contributions and pay for GP appointments. Albeit a token gesture.

Who said viagra. They don't even have a hole host of cancer drugs on their list.

Lol Bank bailout aren't included in most debt figures and of course we will make the money back and imps most cases profits when we sale it. You need to rethink the bank scarmoungering properganda as well.
 
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Glaucus said:
Even france isn't like the NHs and you pay contributions and pay for GP appointments. Albeit a token gesture.

Who said viagra. They don't even have a hole host of cancer drugs on their list.

Lol Bank bailout aren't included in most debt figures and of course we will make the money back and imps most cases profits when we sale it. You need to rethink the bank scarmoungering properganda as well.
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France has much better coverage, having lived in both countries, there is no comparison.

some of the drugs may not be covered since there are alternative drugs which are on the list, also some drugs may not be in the list since before they can make it to the list they need to be tested which takes some time. are you trying to suggest that the NHS would not cover a drug if there was no alternative method of treatment?

how can you speculate about the profit you will make from the banks?? right now RBS has cost a huge amount. ie they spent about £45 billion to buy it and now several years later the share price is less than half what the government paid for it. RBS has also shredded its staff from about 24000 employees to about 12000. so not sure where you get the notion that they will make any money. right now the government is in the hole big time and the prospects do not look good by any stretch of the imagination

stop drinking the kool-aid. you are the one living in a utopia if you think the governement is making a profit. right now the hole is estimated at around £30bn for the banks they now own
 
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