mercedes / pirelli tribunal thread

Fine I expect (if guilty of breaking the rules).

The only way they won't be guilty is the FIA essentially admitting they've made a pigs ear of something (apparently telling Mercedes they could use a 2013 car and subsequently denying it). I have absolutely zero faith that the FIA would ever admit to that so rightly or wrongly I can't see Mercedes being found anything other than guilty but as you suggest, I expect it will be a fine rather than anything actually detrimental to their season like a points reduction or championship exclusion.
 
I think that no matter what happens, motorsport fandom will still continue arguing and bickering about the rights or wrongs of it. It's all just a bunch of utter ****.

Oh, and someone will say it's all Bernie's fault.

:)
 
Fine and loss of WCC points if found guilty, and it seems Merc are lining Brawn up to be the fall guy, expect him gone if found guilty.

A fine would just leave the door open for Ferrari and Red Bull to go testing and just pay the fine.
 
Hoping for innocent verdict, everyone knew what was happening and there wasn't an issue.

Realistically massive fine and possible WCC points stripped.
 
My gut feeling and knee jerk reaction to this when I first heard about it was that it reeked of desperation; or of how desperate Mercedes were to rectify their tyre deg issues. It wasn't long ago before the test that Lewis had his left rear basically sheered off with Pirelli trying to blame it on debris.

I think that was a lie, they said they were going to look into exactly how the tyre shredded but we've heard nothing back since, this was weeks and weeks ago.

I do think both parties will be found to have breached the sporting regulations but I expect a hefty fine for Mercedes whilst I'm not quite sure what punishment Pirelli would get.

A suitable punishment for Merc would be heavier imo, 1000km is a monumental amount of data gathering by any Formula 1 team under strict in season testing bans, I just feel as though they'll get off lightly.

What the implications are for the other teams remains to be seen but it'll just feel unfair that the teams won't have gone through the course of this season with the same knowledge. Whichever way you look at it Mercedes will have an advantage over the other teams and may well benefit from that.

Should also mention that I don't think their "evidence" will stand up at the Tribunal - which a lot of sources are suggesting is an email from Whiting to Merc stating that he thinks it's ok for them to use their current car... what jurisdiction does Charlie have in such matters. He's not top level FIA.
 
Hoping for innocent verdict, everyone knew what was happening and there wasn't an issue.

Realistically massive fine and possible WCC points stripped.

Everyone did not know, its even been reported that Merc packed up after the GP and left as normal only to return once everyone else was long gone.

But I guess you can claim everyone knew but just kept it quiet, even the news hungry F1 media :D
 
Everyone did not know, its even been reported that Merc packed up after the GP and left as normal only to return once everyone else was long gone.

But I guess you can claim everyone knew but just kept it quiet, even the news hungry F1 media :D

IF that's true (that they packed up, left and returned) :o

How suspicious do you not want to look Merc? :)
 
Constructors points/fine isn't going to change the fact merc gathered a lot of data from the test. They should arrange for all the teams to complete a 1,000km test in the 2013 car, using current drivers but exclude Mercedes - that's the only way to even things up IMO.
 
... its even been reported that Merc packed up after the GP and left as normal only to return once everyone else was long gone.

I know they apparently tested on the Wednesday to the Friday but yet to read anything that states they packed up and came back.
Have you got a source on this as i can't find anything on the big F1 news outlets? :)
 
They will be found guilty as the FIA aren't going to admit they made a right mess of this. Hopefully just a fine at most.


I think that no matter what happens, motorsport fandom will still continue arguing and bickering about the rights or wrongs of it. It's all just a bunch of utter ****.

Oh, and someone will say it's all Bernie's fault.

:)

It was all Bernie's fault!!!! :p:o:D
 
Chances of not seeing a Merc. F1 car next week? :o

Bad feeling the FIA are going to come down hard here to make a point.
 
What are Red Bull doing at this tribunal??? :confused:

FIA hearing into Testgate in session in Paris; Mercedes boss Ross Brawn refuses to speak to the media as he arrives for enquiry; Red Bull Team Principal Christian Horner is a surprise attendee; Initial FIA submissions say only 'informal' discussions took place between them and Mercedes over Barcelona test.
 
The FIA insists that Mercedes and Pirelli were never granted official permission by the governing body to run its 2013 car during the post-Spanish Grand Prix test.

Furthermore, it claims that that any indication of approval Mercedes had to use its current car by F1 race director Charlie Whiting was 'irrelevant'.

As the hearing into whether or not Mercedes and Pirelli breached the rules in running a 2013 car for a tyre test at Barcelona got underway in Paris, motor racing's governing body laid out its reasoning for bringing the matter in front of the International Tribunal.

And with one of the key issues of the case believed to relate to approval it may have had from Whiting, the FIA's legal representative Mark Howard QC made it clear that only the World Motor Sport Council would have the right to waive the rules.

"Whether or not Whiting consented, it is irrelevant, because testing in relation to Article 22 is a breach, unless it [a rule change] is granted by the World Motor Sport Council," he said.

Howard revealed that Whiting was first phoned by Mercedes team manager Ron Meadows on May 2 about the possibility of running a 2013 car, with team principal Ross Brawn holding a follow-up conversation later in the day.

Howard added: "Whiting was asked a general and non-specific question - the general question on the permissibility of using a 2013 car.

"His preliminary response was that such a test would comply with Article 22 providing purpose was for Pirelli to test its tyre and he would check."

Whiting emailed FIA lawyer Sebastian Bernard the following day to enquire about the situation, and was informed that such a scenario could be possible, but would be subject to Pirelli inviting all the others team to test and demonstrate that it has done so.

Howard said that Whiting informed Brawn of the FIA's legal position, but reiterated that it was not a binding stance.

"This communication was not an agreement by the FIA - it was nothing more than Whiting and Bernard's interpretation of [article] 22."

The FIA argues that rival teams were not invited to take part in the Barcelona test with a current car subsequent to the Whiting discussions, even though Pirelli had offered other teams the possibility to test back in 2012.
 
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