Microstuttering in games whenever using mouse

Centel Cesurus · 25 Jul 2021 at 21:56

Hey all,

For a while now I have been suffering from what I can only describe as some form of ‘stutter’ or ‘micro-stutter’ across multiple different games (albeit with slight variations in how this issue appears visually) whenever using my mouse in-game, particularly when making rotations. This is even more noticeable when using both my mouse and keyboard to move and rotate around an in-game environment. Using only my keyboard, however, to either move: forwards, backwards, strafe left or right has not produced any problems and programs run very smoothly with none of the aforementioned issues occurring. The same applies for when using an Xbox one controller via physical connection, no issues occur.

I honestly do not know if this is hardware or software related.

This user posted on Tom's that they were suffering from an issue, very similar to what I am currency experiencing, back in 2013: Games stuttering when moving mouse | Tom's Hardware Forum (tomshardware.com) The post above perfectly describes what I am facing. I can’t definitively say that this is technically ‘stutter’ or ‘micro-stutter’ but I can agree that “its this slight tick-tick-tick-tick as [the mouse] moves”, “no jerky uncontrollable movement, just a stuttering”
What makes this most frustrating is that it is subtle but to a degree where it is still definitely impactful on the gameplay experience.

Impacted Games

The issue does vary in how it appears across different titles, for certain games this issue is far more prevalent than for others. Just to provide some more in-depth information I’ll list below all Titles impacted:

WoW: The issue is incredibly noticeable with a continuous micro-stutter with mouse inputs that is just noticeable enough to be incredibly frustrating. Practically a complete lack of smoothness.
BeamNG.drive: Problem is highly noticeable
Minecraft (Java): Problem is highly noticeable
Call Of Duty Warzone: Stutter isn’t as noticeable but is certainly present
Automation: Stutter isn’t as noticeable but is certainly present (Especially in relation to background scenery)
Grand Theft Auto V: Stutter isn’t as noticeable but is certainly present

With CSGO when using the raw mouse input setting the issue is incredibly subtle and barely noticeable. However, quite interestingly, when this setting is turned off there is a bit of stuttering every couple of seconds. This sort of intermittent stutter is practically a separate issue from the problem I have been describing.

These titles don’t appear to have been affected:

Rust
Minecraft (Bedrock Edition)
Valorant

Attempted resolutions

I want to include as much potentially helpful info as possible so I will clarify that I have already attempted all suggested fixes in the post above along with numerous others suggestion I have found:

Tested multiple different DPI and Polling Rates across effected titles
Ensured mouse is connected directly into the back panel connector
Used different USB ports, even tried using a USB 2.0 over USB 3.0 to see if it would produce different results
Tried using a different mouse (Older model Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum)
Uninstalled and Reinstalled both the mouse driver and Logitech G Hub software
Tested using the mouse without Logitech G Hub software installed
Disconnected any additional peripheral devices from computer
Used different surfaces (Wooden Desk, Corsair MM350, Logitech 840XL)
Ensured Xbox game bar and Nvidia In-game overlay were disabled
Ensured that I am running the latest Nvidia GeForce driver (Version 471.41 as of writing this)
Changed pointer scheme setting to “(None)”
Deleted Realtek Audio Driver
Checked that Cortana was still disabled
Checked that Enhanced pointer precision was still disabled
Checked all impacted games were updated to latest version

I was suffering originally from a few other computer performance related issues which led me to perform a clean installation of Windows 10 early this month on the 4th of July. Similar problems were present before the clean install, however, I wasn’t playing as many games at the time aside from CS:GO and GTA V and so I can’t really pin-point if this clean installation is a contributing factor to this issue.

Because of this clean install I do not have: RivaTuner, MSI Afterburner, CPU-Z, GPU-Z or any similar software monitoring my computer as I did previously.

I’ll also include a few other changes I have made in general to the system since the install (I have these all documented on a .txt):

CP: Control Panel
NCP: Nvidia Control Panel

Installed the latest BIOS version for my motherboard (Version 1301), Model: Asus ROG STRIX Z270F (Pre windows clean install)
Turned on GPU Scheduling (Win Settings): 05/07/2021
Turned on “Game mode” (Win Settings)
Turned off Background app refresh (Win settings)
Selected “High performance” power option (CP)
Turned on low latency settings (NCP)
Set Preferred refresh rate to highest available (NCP)
Power management mode set to Preferred maximum performance (NCP)

(In services)

Fax disabled
Windows insider service disabled
Remote desktop configurator disabled
Touch keyboard configurator disabled
Application layer gateway service disabled
Windows image acquisition disabled
Connected user experience disabled
Retail demo service disabled
Windows media network sharing disabled
AllJoyn router service disabled
Windows biometric service disabled

(For G-sync purposes)

Vertical sync turned on (NCP)
Set max frame rate to 142FPS (NCP)

Additional steps taken / tests

Automation Devs recommended I try disabling Anti-Aliasing, changing this made no difference.
The WoW forums recommended two different console commands as well as “/script SetCVar("rawMouseEnable", 1)” to enable/disable raw mouse input. This did not resolve the issue (However I doubt this worked as checking the WoW Config.wtf did not show any additions or changes)

Hardware related tests:

Using 3D mark:

Timespy showed average performance results relative to similar systems
Stress test stability percentage exceeded 98% and didn’t throw up any concerns
CPU Specific testing didn’t come up with anything particularly concerning
PCIE Express feature test showed bandwidth to be 3.06GB/s

Using the windows memory diagnostic tool showed RAM to be running as expected
Samsung Magician showed my 870 EVO SSD to be operating as expected.

Pre-existing Issues:

My GPU (An Asus ROG STRIX GTX1080) has had difficulty constantly outputting whenever connected to the top PCIE slot of my motherboard. Having the GPU connected to the bottom PCIE slot on my motherboard seems to have resolved the issue. Checking both the GPU and PCIE slot hasn’t revealed any apparent damage to points of connection. Perhaps this is somehow linked to my issue? I can’t be sure as, again, this only occurs when using my mouse.
Despite specifically returning my GPU to default settings via MSI Afterburner, my GPU still appears to run 200 MHz over the standard 1733 MHz Boost clock specified on the Asus website.

Specs:

OS: Windows 10 Home
GPU: Asus ROG Strix GTX 1080. GPU boost clock: 1900 MHz
CPU: I7-7700K @ 4.5GHz using “Turbo mode”
Motherboard: Asus Rog Strix Z270F Motherboard
Ram: 16GB of DDR4. Ram speed: 2333MHz
1st SSD: Samsung 870 Evo 500GB
2nd SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D15
PSU: 850W (80 Plus Gold rated)

Main mouse: Logitech G502 Hero
Second mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum
Monitor: Asus Rog Swift PG279Q 27 (2560 x 1440 resolution @ 144Hz)(100% DPI Scaling)

I will note that the majority of these affected games are stored on my new 870 Evo. (I’ll uninstall WoW and install it onto my 850 Evo to see if that makes any difference)
I will also note that I do have McAfee anti-virus installed and running on my system, I am aware of the issues it can cause but over the 5 or so years I have used McAfee I haven't experienced this issue until now.

Sorry for the mini-essay, just want to pack as much info here as possible as I've been across multiple forums and I've tried multiple solutions. None have really worked.

Any and all help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers, guys

mickyflinn · 25 Jul 2021 at 22:34

I would be tempted to try a different mouse not another g502 .

Does the stuttering occur at a lower resoloution such as 1080p ?

davy89 · 26 Jul 2021 at 00:49

Agree with the mouse suggestion, I tried for a while figuring out a similar issue and it turned out to be a mouse issue, give a completely different brand a go and see how you get on.

I also had a friend with a similar issue to yourself, it turned out to be the PSU (I’m assuming not giving the components sufficient power on load - not entirely sure), it was one of the last things they replaced as well.

Donnie Fisher · 26 Jul 2021 at 09:53

You don't seem to say you have tried switching off the anti-virus ... whatever way you cut it, the AV will be interrupting the system to scan ... this particularly could be when it detects a new input of data, like from a mouse. With a quad core, a modern game can normally load up all the cores, the AV sending an interrupt to run a scan could mean a thread switch on a core of the CPU which takes a slice of time away from the game ... the game then demands to run, and so the thread has to switch back, again taking a slice of time. These switches could be causing the little stutters.

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 10:56

I greatly appreciate all of the responses!

Update: I've uninstalled WoW from my 870 Evo and put it onto my 850 Evo, no difference.

Right, so after lowering both my display resolution and in-game resolution I can say that this issue is continuing. Mind you, I think this is something still worth investigating so I'll spend this morning just messing around with resolution settings to see if I can spot anything.
I'll see if I can find another mouse to use, I might have a wireless work mouse lying around but at least it will let me identify if my Logitech mice are the cause of the issue.
In regards to your PSU comment do you think it is possible my 850W could be suffering from issues? My computer is a modified, rebuild of an OCUK Pre-built system and I'm using the 'Super Flower Leadex II' power supply that came with the original computer, after 3 and a half years its already making quite a racket and so I've considered replacing it with a Corsair RM850X.

Edit: after going into the McAfee application I disabled the firewall, scanning and all other processes I could, I don't believe there is any direct way to fully disable the AV (Unless I remove it from my PC) but, according to both windows and McAfee, all protective processes were disabled. After doing this the issue persists. I might look into deleting 'McAfee Total Protection' but I can't imagine that will make a difference considering all other AV processes were disabled.

Additionally, I tried running all affected games at 1080p, still no difference

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 11:46

Upon connecting a brand new wireless Dell mouse I still had issues, impressively the stuttering was worse, especially when simply navigating my desktop with the cursor. I can't really use the Dell mouse to rule out anything as the mouse itself is already pretty crappy. What I might need to do is ask a buddy of mine if I can borrow his gaming mouse. I know he prefers Corsair so I should be able to get my hands on the appropriate hardware to properly test things.

In the meantime I'll just see what other factors may be causing this and investigate further, may even move the GPU back to the top PCIE slot to find out what's going on with that. I'll keep this thread updated. Any other tips/suggestions/questions are welcomed!

mickyflinn · 26 Jul 2021 at 11:58

Long shot but disconnect front panel usb headers from the motherboard.

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 12:02

My bad, forgot to mention that I have already disconnected the front panel usb headers. Audio in/out are still connected, would it be worth disconnecting those as well?

mickyflinn · 26 Jul 2021 at 12:12

Centel Cesurus said:
My bad, forgot to mention that I have already disconnected the front panel usb headers. Audio in/out are still connected, would it be worth disconnecting those as well?

Worth a try .

Open up task manager see if any process pops up while stuttering occurs and goes away when it stops.

Feel your frustration.

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 12:25

It's a bit finicky as I'm trying to view task manager whilst using my mouse in-game, as the continuous 'micro-stutter' only occur in correlation with mouse inputs. I might try a few things to monitor if any processes do pop up whenever mouse input is used, perhaps a certain process is triggered by this form of input?
I'll get back to you if I am able to find anything in that regard.

Edit:

After finding a way to monitor both task manager and play the game, using WoW as the main program I'm testing, I found that: 'McAfee', 'System', 'WMI Provider Host' and 'Nvidia container' all appeared below WoW and seemed to fluctuate in CPU and Memory usage but not in any correlation with mouse movement. I tried simply using the keyboard to move and, with no stutter, the fluctuations in task manager were pretty much identical to when using both the keyboard and mouse, with stutter. Even with the game just running in the background the same processes are fluctuating, usage typically being around 1% for each, sometimes slightly higher. I will note that 'System interrupt' appeared once or twice when in game.

I suppose that's the issue with a continuous stutter linked with a single form of input, it's really hard to identify if a background process is causing this.

I do appreciate all of the suggestions and help, so thanks for that

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 12:43

I'll keep on messing about with things, I'll come back and check up on the thread as much as I can but I do apologise if I'm late to reply.

[HB]Rugrat · 26 Jul 2021 at 15:39

Have you checked DPC latency? I've had problems in the past with processes causing absurdly high DPC latency and it's manifested itself in the form of odd issues with USB devices like the one you outline. If you haven't already tried it, try using latencymon to see if there's something misbehaving.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

EsaT · 26 Jul 2021 at 17:54

Yep, DPC latency would show if it's some device driver.

Also would check Event viewer for any abnormal amount of errors/warnings.

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 20:48

Have you checked DPC latency? I've had problems in the past with processes causing absurdly high DPC latency and it's manifested itself in the form of odd issues with USB devices like the one you outline. If you haven't already tried it, try using latencymon to see if there's something misbehaving.

Also would check Event viewer for any abnormal amount of errors/warnings

DPC Latency? I'm not familiar with that but I'll certainly look into it! Cheers for the suggestion

Regarding Event viewer I'm not quite sure what would be considered an abnormal amount of errors/warnings, I'll share my results for everyone to take a look at:

Critical: 1 in the last hour / 2 in the last 24 hours / 3 in the last 7 days
Error: 2 in the last hour / 5 in the last 24 hours / 34 in the last 7 days
Warning (This one looks quite high): 10 in the last hour / 34 in the last 24 hours / 1345 in the last 7 days

1345 warnings in the past 7 days seems quite high, especially relative to the fact I've only had 34 warnings in the last 24 hours. Could this be a red flag?

Additionally, is there any chance that this problem could be hardware related? As mentioned in the original post I've been encountering issues with my motherboard's top PCIE slot. Today, after initially installing the GPU in said slot, I booted and checked the GPU was properly powering on, but got no display. Nothing at all with either HDMI or Display port. After using a canister of compressed air and cleaning out the PCIE slot and then installing the GPU at a slightly different orientation I managed to get the GPU to properly display. Issue is that this is exactly what happened last time, I could use my computer just fine for the next day or so only to find on the third or fourth boot my GPU would fail to display. I am positive this issue is not a consequence of any problems with my Graphics card as it displays perfectly fine when using the second PCIE port. Perhaps the second PCIE slot is also suffering from a problem? All that said and done is it within the realm of possibility that a problematic motherboard could be causing the issue I am describing?

Quartz · 26 Jul 2021 at 21:19

Get rid of McAfee.

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 21:27

Do you reckon that could be the cause of the 1345 warnings in the past 7 days? If so I'm going to assume that value is pretty high.
I'll look into deleting McAfee and seeing if it makes any differences, although I have already attempted disabling all of the AV's processes. Maybe something is still operational despite this?

Centel Cesurus · 26 Jul 2021 at 21:36

After digging around I've found "Kernel-power", "Kernel-EventTracing" and "DistributedCOM" to be the main culprits for the Critical, Errors and warnings respectively.

Event ID 10016 for DistributedCOM, in particular, causing 1030 Warnings in the past 7 days.

EsaT · 27 Jul 2021 at 17:24

Centel Cesurus said:
Additionally, is there any chance that this problem could be hardware related? As mentioned in the original post I've been encountering issues with my motherboard's top PCIE slot. Today, after initially installing the GPU in said slot, I booted and checked the GPU was properly powering on, but got no display. Nothing at all with either HDMI or Display port. After using a canister of compressed air and cleaning out the PCIE slot and then installing the GPU at a slightly different orientation I managed to get the GPU to properly display. Issue is that this is exactly what happened last time, I could use my computer just fine for the next day or so only to find on the third or fourth boot my GPU would fail to display.

If slot contact is barely there, thermal cycling and associated expansion/contraction of pieces can well worsen contact untill signal integrity fails.

McAfee could also be the cause.
Google finds cases of stuttering caused by it from multiple years.

Donnie Fisher · 28 Jul 2021 at 00:33

Personally I would ditch McAfee too.

Centel Cesurus · 29 Jul 2021 at 17:15

Quick Update:
Just before going to ditch McAfee I went ahead and ran some more tests to see if changing the GPU to the top PCIE slot made any difference. It did.
CS:GO and Valorant are now suffering from the stutter issue despite working relatively fine before moving the GPU. Moving the GPU back to the bottom PCIE slot did not reverse this. Any ideas what this could mean?

In the meantime I will make sure McAfee and all related programs are fully removed from my system before continuing testing.
I'll also run the DPC Latency test beforehand.