Minibus Driving Test

[Dangerous Dave]

Didnt know that, i stand corrected

I am just going by what the DVLA told the charity. The OP should contact the DVLA and get it in writing as that DVLA leaflet INF28 meantioned above is contradicting what was said although it also advises in the same leaflet the driver has to be providing the service on a voluntary basis and for a non-commercial body for social purposes.

He also needs to check weights as the newer tranists are over the 3.5 ton limit if they are 15-16 seaters.

A quick google found a similair discussion on a transit forum and someone contacted the DVLA and were told

"** Not for hire or reward means that the driver cannot recieve payment for driving the vehicle. We looked into this further and also contacted DVLA and this means that if a school owns a bus, or hires a bus no staff which is being paid is permitted to drive the vehicle, unless they have cetegory D1 on your licence withour the code "101" next to it."

http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65247

 

[Dangerous Dave]

D1 is just a certificate (that he now holds) so long as he is only using the work's bus for any work related use, be that socials, trips off site etc. so long as his passengers aren't paying him for driving the bus he is not being paid to use it, despite what Fox seems to think about being paid by work.

He doesn't have a D1 entitlement it involves taking a medical, resitting both theory tests and then doing a DVLA driving test.

 

[Participant]

He doesn't have a D1 entitlement it involves taking a medical, resitting both theory tests and then doing a DVLA driving test.

Only if he passed his driving test after 1st Jan 1997.

Otherwise he still may not need a D1 if all of the above bullet points I quoted are fulfilled.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Only if he passed his driving test after 1st Jan 1997.

Otherwise he still may not need a D1 if all of the above bullet points I quoted are fulfilled.

He is in his early 20s so passed post 1997.

 

[Defcon5]

Only if he passed his driving test after 1st Jan 1997.

Otherwise he still may not need a D1 if all of the above bullet points I quoted are fulfilled.

Peerzy will have got his license much later than that i would thave thought

 

[InvaderGIR]

He doesn't have a D1 entitlement it involves taking a medical, resitting both theory tests and then doing a DVLA driving test.

I realise the fact I stated D1 was bad.

But the minibus cert he has is perfectly valid for use to drive the work's mini buses whenever required, provided he doesn't try to make money out of doing so (ie being paid by passengers or paid extra by work). It counts as one form of the minibus license, I did read up on it all a year ago due to friends taking their minibus tests.

 

[Participant]

Ok so he won't have a D1, therefore :

•The minibus must weigh no more than 3.5 tonnes when fully laden (or 4.25 tonnes if it has accessible equipment such as a passenger lift)
•You are over 21 years of age
•You have held a full driving license for 2 years
•You must NOT tow a trailer
•You must NOT be in receipt of any payment (salary) or time off in lieu for the period you a driving the minibus

The only sticking points for me then (assuming his company is happy for him to use the van for a social) is whether or not the school has insured employees for these purposes, and whether or not the tax man allows employees to use work vans for private booze ups (if indeed it is private).

If it's 'merely incidental' to the business purpose, e.g. you drove a pool car to the works Christmas do, then it would be fine, but I can't see how the tax man would let people use company pool cars / vans for private social occasions.

Not that the policeman would care about that.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Ok so he won't have a D1, therefore :

•The minibus must weigh no more than 3.5 tonnes when fully laden (or 4.25 tonnes if it has accessible equipment such as a passenger lift)
•You are over 21 years of age
•You have held a full driving license for 2 years
•You must NOT tow a trailer
•You must NOT be in receipt of any payment (salary) or time off in lieu for the period you a driving the minibus

The only sticking points for me then (assuming his company is happy for him to use the van for a social) is whether or not the school has insured employees for these purposes, and whether or not the tax man allows employees to use work vans for private booze ups (if indeed it is private).

If it's 'merely incidental' to the business purpose, e.g. you drove a pool car to the works Christmas do, then it would be fine, but I can't see how the tax man would let people use company pool cars / vans for private social occasions.

Not that the policeman would care about that.

My understanding of what has been said is he will be driving the bus in school hours so will be getting paid a salary.

 

[Participant]

I doubt it's in school hours if it's a social, and secondly I think the salary has to be extra for driving the minibus. Otherwise nobody could ever drive a minibus at work! No teachers would be able to take any kids to the pool on Friday because they would need a D1. The tone of it is aimed at people making money specifically for ferrying people around, I think.

 

[[TW]Fox]

But isnt the whole point of this to make people take the test for D1?

They dont WANT people ferrying kids about without having D1.

 

[Fr0dders]

But isnt the whole point of this to make people take the test for D1?

They dont WANT people ferrying kids about without having D1.

unless its on a voluntary basis, eg outside of school hours in your own spare time.

I doubt it's in school hours if it's a social, and secondly I think the salary has to be extra for driving the minibus. Otherwise nobody could ever drive a minibus at work! No teachers would be able to take any kids to the pool on Friday because they would need a D1. The tone of it is aimed at people making money specifically for ferrying people around, I think.

Your salary specifies your working hours. Lets say they are 8:30 to 3:30pm

If he drives a bus during these hours, he is being paid a salary for working during those hours. Therefore if he drives a minibus between then, he's still being paid for his time, Unless he has taken the time off unpaid and gets 2 hours pay deducted from his salary or something.

 

[Participant]

Fox;12121]But isnt the whole point of this to make people take the test for D1?

They dont WANT people ferrying kids about without having D1.

Maybe. I'm assuming they only trying to stop people driving large vehicles without D1 rather than ickle minibuses.

Your salary specifies your working hours. Lets say they are 8:30 to 3:30pm

If he drives a bus during these hours, he is being paid a salary for working during those hours. Therefore if he drives a minibus between then, he's still being paid for his time, Unless he has taken the time off unpaid and gets 2 hours pay deducted from his salary or something.

What I'm saying is that a social is unlikely to be between these hours, no?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Maybe. I'm assuming they only trying to stop people driving large vehicles without D1 rather than ickle minibuses.

I dunno, a 16+ seater full of kids is quite a valuable cargo.

The problem wasn't that the vehicle was huge it was more the fact of what the vehicles were carrying and the fact the drivers had no more training than the average numpty.

 

[Fr0dders]

Maybe. I'm assuming they only trying to stop people driving large vehicles without D1 rather than ickle minibuses.



What I'm saying is that a social is unlikely to be between these hours, no?

Its unlikely agreed, but we don't know

Need the OP to clarify during what hours he is driving

 

[kefkef]

unless its on a voluntary basis, eg outside of school hours in your own spare time.

Your salary specifies your working hours. Lets say they are 8:30 to 3:30pm

If he drives a bus during these hours, he is being paid a salary for working during those hours. Therefore if he drives a minibus between then, he's still being paid for his time, Unless he has taken the time off unpaid and gets 2 hours pay deducted from his salary or something.

I suppose it's how you interperate the 'by or on behalf of the passengers', as they would appear to be school children is this a service that they (the passengers) pay the school for? If not then the service is effectively free as there is no 'charge' and thus there is no monetary reward 'by or on behalf of' the passengers. His wages (in my opinion) are not paid to him on behalf of the passengers travelling on that service.

Interesting point and open to interpretation/misunderstanding either way, but i suppose it is a DVLA leaflet.

 

[Peerzy]

Wow still a bit of confusion and no thread hijack yet!

Wai 2 go guyz!

Right, first off I'm 21 so I've only had my license for 4 years~.

I'm almost certain they are 16 seaters, no boot or room for storage - no idea on weight.

The certificate I have doesn't say D1 or anything to do with the DVLA.

My working hours are 8.30-4.45 (which also appear to be my frequent posting times here!) and I'd only ever be asked to drive inside these hours.

Someone (also young 24) did borrow a Minibus recently to take a load of staff out on the lash and that was in the evening.

No one is paid anything extra for doing the test or holding the certificate or doing the trips and it's just an email sent round every 6 months asking who wants to give it a go.

I was told a few days before the exam to grab one of the caretakers and he just threw me the keys, say in the passenger seat and told me to drive.

Test was the same, I drove how I drive my car now (so safe - but with all the naughty habbits you pick up over the years) and at the end he just said "Well done, good drive you've passed".

One of the lads at work is actually working at another school at the moment and they have to get caretakers to drive them everywhere as they have done proper tests for the minibuses - but everyone thought that was just the bursar being crud over there as we've been doing this apparently for years without issue?

 

[Fr0dders]

Wow still a bit of confusion and no thread hijack yet!

Wai 2 go guyz!

Right, first off I'm 21 so I've only had my license for 4 years~.

I'm almost certain they are 16 seaters, no boot or room for storage - no idea on weight.

The certificate I have doesn't say D1 or anything to do with the DVLA.

My working hours are 8.30-4.45 (which also appear to be my frequent posting times here!) and I'd only ever be asked to drive inside these hours.

Someone (also young 24) did borrow a Minibus recently to take a load of staff out on the lash and that was in the evening.

No one is paid anything extra for doing the test or holding the certificate or doing the trips and it's just an email sent round every 6 months asking who wants to give it a go.

I was told a few days before the exam to grab one of the caretakers and he just threw me the keys, say in the passenger seat and told me to drive.

Test was the same, I drove how I drive my car now (so safe - but with all the naughty habbits you pick up over the years) and at the end he just said "Well done, good drive you've passed".

One of the lads at work is actually working at another school at the moment and they have to get caretakers to drive them everywhere as they have done proper tests for the minibuses - but everyone thought that was just the bursar being crud over there as we've been doing this apparently for years without issue?

Driving the minibus for "extra" isnt the issue here

If its during your working hours then you are being paid to drive it. You NEED a D1 entitlement on your license to drive it whilst being paid to do so. Yes its not extra pay, but your employer hasnt given you the day off either, so it still counts.

They will probably be used to dealing with Teachers who are a bit older, and passed before 1997 so already have the D1 entitlement.

More Here

http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65247

Not for hire or reward means that the driver cannot recieve payment for driving the vehicle. We looked into this further and also contacted DVLA and this means that if a school owns a bus, or hires a bus no staff which is being paid is permitted to drive the vehicle, unless they have cetegory D1 on your licence withour the code "101" next to it.

 

[Fourstar]

Not for hire or reward means that the driver cannot recieve payment for driving the vehicle. We looked into this further and also contacted DVLA and this means that if a school owns a bus, or hires a bus no staff which is being paid is permitted to drive the vehicle, unless they have cetegory D1 on your licence withour the code "101" next to it.

This is really interesting. I have a pre '97 licence and have always held a degree of smugness over my ability to drive minibuses compared to newer drivers who have the category removed.

In reality there is little difference at all. I have D1 with the "101" code which means "not for hire or reward".

The exemption allows all full licence holders to drive D1 category minibuses with very similar constraints.

At least I now have another excuse to avoid driving on the next jolly

 

[Peerzy]

Only 2 of the teachers on the list are old enough to have passed before 1997, the other 20 odd are mid-early 20's.

I got this email back:

Peerzy,

You are only covered for SJB activities. Normally you would require a D1
classification on your licence, but because you have a B or B1 and don't get
paid additional money for driving the minibus at SJB you are covered with
the school insurance. Anything outside of school might be different.

Thanks.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Only 2 of the teachers on the list are old enough to have passed before 1997, the other 20 odd are mid-early 20's.

I got this email back:

Phone the DVLA (0300 790 6801) and get it in writing from them what is required to drive the school minibus in working hours. The quote from the transit forum advises that the DVLA told them you need a D1 entitlement on your drivers license. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks in this case other than the DVLA it seems open to interpretation what for reward actually covers you need this confirmed by the DVLA.