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Mirrors edge physx vid

Yeah as I said the game is crap it probably doesn't use physx for the character movement anyhow.

But it goes a long way towards getting proper physics into games rather than half baked scripted events or very simplified linear movement.

Once you've seen say a leaf blown in the wind, wrap itself around an object and still affected by the wind slide until it detaches again and carries on its merry way its a whole lot more immersive than a simple leaf particle that goes right through objects as if they aren't even there.

what you've just described is a an event that can be scripted, almost certainly is, can be done on any physics engine, the difference is with physx the calculations would be longer, more processor intensive and therefore faster on hardware, none of which makes it better.

None of what you said was realistic physx and thats what people need to understand, physics are in every game, in every event that occurs. The leaf hitting a person, not accurate great physics, the physx might map the path of the leaf more accurately, but you will never be able to tell if the leaf should be an inch to the left, or an inch to the right, thats the only difference physx brings. The movement of a leaf, the hitting a person and sticking, then flying off again none of that has to do with realism, none of it requires realism, none of it is remotely complicated physx. Thats what people need to realise, physx isn't about doing more things, its about doing more things ACCURATELY. But you literally can't tell if the leaf should be 4 inches to the left, or 4 to the right, because you can't see the wind, you can't tell where it should be.

Think of it like this, you're out on the street, in real life, in winter, its windy, 100 leaves bounce along down the street in the wind, if every leaf is 3 inches to the left, does it look less realistic? no, well, thats the part physx effects, everything else, and i mean EVERYTHING, is design. Even the realistic/accuracy of physx MUST BE PROGRAMMED and designed anyway. SO its worthless.
 
Sheesh... most people when they have played a few games are going to notice the difference between a leaf that INTERACTS with its environment and one thats merely an incidental and guess which one makes the game more immersive...

Its starting to look like none of you actually have any idea about what goes on behind the scenes in a computer game.

Physx is both about doing things most accuratly and doing more things.

We aren't talking about minute positional accuracy here we are talking about how well an object interacts with its environment and if its reasonably realistic (helps immersion) or very primitive - which tells you your playing a video game...
 
And btw a leaf would never be scripted like that (except maybe a cheap cutscene) in a normal game its just a particle effect running off an algorhytm generally simulating simple velocity and mavity interactions but thats about it - generally not even collision detection.

As you seem to know very little about this maybe you should be a bit less vocal.
 
Sheesh... most people when they have played a few games are going to notice the difference between a leaf that INTERACTS with its environment and one thats merely an incidental and guess which one makes the game more immersive...

Its starting to look like none of you actually have any idea about what goes on behind the scenes in a computer game.

Physx is both about doing things most accuratly and doing more things.

We aren't talking about minute positional accuracy here we are talking about how well an object interacts with its environment and if its reasonably realistic (helps immersion) or very primitive - which tells you your playing a video game...

But at the moment all they are doing are things badly more accurately & more of it.
 
Sure developers seem to be slow getting upto speed with physx and its not helping - but I'm tired of seeing people slamming physx without apparently knowing what its really capable of and how much of an improvement the underlying technology is on the old method.
 
Sure developers seem to be slow getting upto speed with physx and its not helping - but I'm tired of seeing people slamming physx without apparently knowing what its really capable of and how much of an improvement the underlying technology is on the old method.

How good it could be & capable of is not the point we are making, the point is its not being used well in a convincing way from what i have been seeing & using heavy calculations for what they are doing is a waste until they know how to make the pHysx look convincing enough to be worthy of the accuracy resources.

There are Dx9 games that look better than some Dx10 games Dx10 uses more resources so infact some of them DX10 games should not of used Dx10 at all when they offer noting noticeable than what Dx9 had to offer & could have just used Dx9 & had the same visual impact for less resources.
 
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I cant believe yous are talking about the realism of a leaf...!
How about real shockwaves and better explosions!
(like the nuke shockwave we never got in crysis)
 
It was one example of how traditional "physics" are done against what is possible with properly simulated physics.
 
drunkenmaster said "the point is, physx does nothing at all any other physx engine can't do"
physx can do 1000s more objects on screen at once without slowdown over the other engines. Its not so much the extra things physx does, its the fact it can do more at once without slowdown as its in hardware. Liquid chemical grenades that explode with liquid moving across beams and dripping down I guess could be done but never are in software as its so slow on the CPU. Cloth that tears and rips again is very slow on the CPU. Not seen that in other engines and if it is done I bet its much smaller amounts then physx.



drunkenmaster said "The problem here is its impossible, I mean inarguably and literally impossible to see the difference between realistic, and estimated physics if they are both implemented well."
Physx does the estimated physics far faster than any other physics API. We are not talking a small amount of difference but a massive difference. The main point of Physx is not that the physics are more accurate, it's that it's so much faster you can have more physics on screen without slowdown.

There are 3 options. Do the estimated physics via Physx and be faster then the other API's.
Do more detailed physics and most of the time still be faster then other API's.
3rd do way more physics then the other APIs and be around the same speed or a little slower.



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drunkenmaster said "Please tell me what part of that demo needed super accurate physics, and what part couldn't be done by estimation or scripting."
Can you show one part of the demo that used super accurate physics? You cannot as they are using a similar level of accuracy to the other physics API's. It's more a case of there is more of it and its much faster as it's done in hardware.
 
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Doesn't look anything special to me this game, every time i see it i just think of those old Space Ace/Dragons Lair games, where you just had to move your joystick at the right moment.
 
drunkenmaster said "what you've just described is a an event that can be scripted, almost certainly is, can be done on any physics engine, the difference is with physx the calculations would be longer, more processor intensive and therefore faster on hardware, none of which makes it better."
Sure it could be scripted but it would look terrible far worse than a real physics engine.
Are you just making stuff up again? Do you have any evidence at all that PhysX calculations would be longer and more processor intensive over the same calculations in another API?

Did it ever accrue to you that PhysX can do the same level of accuracy as the other API's only it does them in hardware so it's faster.
 
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Most of the anti-Physx comments seem to be coming from the diehard ATI fanboys, surprise surprise. ;)

Don't worry boys I'm sure ATI will get around to it sometime in 2009 then you can start to praise it. :p
 
drunkenmaster said "what you've just described is a an event that can be scripted, almost certainly is, can be done on any physics engine, the difference is with physx the calculations would be longer, more processor intensive and therefore faster on hardware, none of which makes it better."
Sure it could be scripted but it would look terrible far worse than a real physics engine.
Are you just making stuff up again? Do you have any evidence at all that PhysX calculations would be longer and more processor intensive over the same calculations in another API?

Did it ever accrue to you that PhysX can do the same level of accuracy as the other API's only it does them in hardware so it's faster.

no it didn't, other APi's use less accuracy as there is completely and utterly no need for anything close to realistic. The cpu power needed for incredibly basic physics engines is minimal, as, lets see, proven by every game that uses lots of physics effects that aren't based on the physx engine. Where as every game that uses physx does smeg all and somehow is slower than other games with better physx engines, and is only speed up with physx hardware. The logical conclusion is that..... the physx hardware is made to do more complex calculations faster. THe trouble is, we don't need more complex calculations.

Oh well, Pottseys in the thread, he'll spout on about the great upcoming games that will use physx properly. Except NOW the excuse is that it needs more intergrating, needs more time and more people to use it, 3 years ago the excuse was the games out now are crap but game X due in Y months will be fantastic, you'll see. Yet game, after game, after game comes and goes with no one remotely interested in the physx of it.

How many YEARS can you claim I'm wrong, claim you are right, and have zero proof, despite what most people seeing is that physx was dead before it started, it doesn't do anything useful and the 1% of gamers(i'm being incredibly generous there) that think it will be useful constantly talk about the next big game.



My question about what in that demo needed super accelerating was to the other guy, you can not use my question, to then question my point incorrectly. My entire point was nothing, at all, in that demo needed acceleration to be done.

What exactly in that game needed physx, generic litter blowing on a roof where there would be no litter, wow, immersion, realism, yay. or more token physx effects that offer zero realism, actually harm the immersion but somehow get the physx guys all hot and bothered.

But whoopdedoo, another physx game that adds pointless effects, that don't help immersion , while all that time spent adding the pointless effects would have been better used making the actual game remotely good. Like actually appearing to get relatively close to the things you jump on to, which, you don't in this game.

lets see, physx game number 228 passes by without a lick of useful stuff in it.

Noticed that all the physx games that properly use physx, have zero gameplay, are generally incredibly short, like, their own game, because they spend so much time on physics, they forget about, story, gameplay and graphics.
 
Most of the anti-Physx comments seem to be coming from the diehard ATI fanboys, surprise surprise. ;)

Don't worry boys I'm sure ATI will get around to it sometime in 2009 then you can start to praise it. :p

yes except, everyone could see physx was completely dead, before Nvidia even bought it. 99.9999% of the worlds gamers have realised its a joke since the day it was originally laughed and die hard ATi fans, just got another laugh when Nvidia spunked so much cash on it.

How long has it actually been since physx was launched, how many "this will be the game that shows you all" posts have we seen around the web from die hard physx fans, and how many of those games have proven the usefulness of physx.

It was only die hard physx fans that remotely thought it was good, now its only diehard physx and die hard Nvidia fans that think its great, and with both numbers dwindling fast, hopefully in a year physx won't be mentioned anymore.
 
Cellfactor I believe now uses the 260GTX but I can't seem to enable the PPU option without it crashing so guess its just a hook - theres a few older physics apps that aren't compatible but I think nVidia have fixed up most of them.
 
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Physx never died because the core idea was bad - it never took off because there was little use of it in any mainstream game and you had to spend a moderate sum on some extra hardware - now nVidia have taken it up it will start to get the use that it deserves.

The whole accuracy arguement looks hilarously wrong from the pov of someone who has an understanding of game development.
 
Physx never died because the core idea was bad - it never took off because there was little use of it in any mainstream game and you had to spend a moderate sum on some extra hardware - now nVidia have taken it up it will start to get the use that it deserves.

The whole accuracy arguement looks hilarously wrong from the pov of someone who has an understanding of game development.

Don't keep on with we don't agree with you because we don't understand.
We understand & so do many games developers & that's why few are using the Physx.

Convincing psychics is what people want & that's all what matters.
How developers go about delivering that through scripted or Physx does not matter as long as it gets the results that people will appreciate.

So far the results from Physx does not justify the the grunt needed to drive it.
Just like some games do not justify the system specs need.
 
drunkenmaster said "no it didn't, other APi's use less accuracy as there is completely and utterly no need for anything close to realistic. "
But physx isn't super realistic. Show me one bit of evidence that Physx is super accurate and super realistic when used in games. Can you show once bit of evidence that other major physics APIs have less accuracy.



drunkenmaster "The cpu power needed for incredibly basic physics engines is minimal, as, lets see, proven by every game that uses lots of physics effects that aren't based on the physx engine."
Show us any? The none Physx games that do lots of physics at once turn into a slideshow with sub1fps. Look at Crysis as soon as you start doing lots of physics at once like knocking down a lot of trees at the same time its unplayable due to the physics and the CPU not being able to handle it. Low the physics to a low amount and it becomes playable.



drunkenmaster said "Where as every game that uses physx does smeg all and somehow is slower than other games with better physx engines, and is only speed up with physx hardware. The"
Again it looks like your making stuff up. You haven't shown once bit of valid evidence for this. Show us one bit of evidence where physx is slower than other engines doing the same work.



drunkenmaster said "How many YEARS can you claim I'm wrong, claim you are right, and have zero proof,"
That's great coming from you with zero proof. Every time I post proof your wrong or ask for evidence, you vanish from the thread or ignore it.




drunkenmaster said " My question about what in that demo needed super accelerating was to the other guy, you can not use my question, to then question my point incorrectly. My entire point was nothing, at all, in that demo needed acceleration to be done."
It's not super accurate it's the amount being done that needs acceleration. It could be done on the CPU but it would be much, much slower in any physics API. Show us one game that use's that much cloth and real interactive cloth that rips. You keep saying it can be done without accelerating but where is the evidence that it can be done at playable speeds? Or is this another case of you conveniently cannot remember the other games.



drunkenmaster said " What exactly in that game needed physx, generic litter blowing on a roof where there would be no litter, wow, immersion, realism, yay."
I take it you have never been on a large buildings roof in a large city. You get litter.




drunkenmaster said "Noticed that all the physx games that properly use physx, have zero gameplay, are generally incredibly short, like, their own game, because they spend so much time on physics, they forget about, story, gameplay and graphics. "
Not sure what you mean properly. All these games use Physx throughout the game Mass Effec,t Sacred 2 ,Medal of Honor: Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2, Unreal Tournament 3, City of Villains and all the other games. I wouldn't call any of them zero gameplay games and incredibly short. Yeah right.
 
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